McCain Vs Obama

willowfox · Sep 21, 2008

Will McCain win/become the next president?

Hex 20.1,2 > 61

The lines speak badly about McCain, a man with little idea of what the job entails or even how to do it, but even though the people are unsure what he is on about they will still support him anyway(sheep to the slaughter). The next line goes on to say that McCain has a very narrow view of the world and can only see things from his own point of view but unfortunately this will prove to be very dangerous in the future.

Hex 61 He will influence the masses and the ignorant, and they will vote for him, he will beat Obama.

Will Obama win/become the next president?

Hex 31.6 > 33

Line 31.6 a man full of empty promises that have no substance which leads to Hex 33 retreat from the competition, the loser.

Looks like McCain will win by a narrow majority.

catwoman · Sep 21, 2008

Wow. What sad news. But...if it's true that neither men are good enough to be president, Americans are screwed either way, excuse my language. If the oracle is correct, at least Obama will probably avoid assassination, which has been my concern for a while.

mazaru · Sep 21, 2008

Interesting question.
I'm not much into politics, but I really found Obama quite likeable.
McCain on the other hand brings chills to my back. He doesn't look too bright and seems to be a man of war, just like Bush.
I really hope you are wrong Willowfox, we will wait and see.

shefa · Sep 21, 2008

Oh WF this is one time I hope the Yi is wrong. Or perhaps it's accurate as of the moment you cast the coins, and it will change.

Perhaps the better question to ask would be about the VP. I do not know why everyone is ignoring the fact there are good reasons why either VP could easily become President under the circumstances.

I think we need a total paradigm shift and Obama is the only one who can help usher this into place. Hold the vision.

Tohpol · Sep 22, 2008

I think WF is spot on.

Topal

bamboo · Sep 22, 2008

Having done I Ching readings on elections in the past, I think it is too soon for a reading to be accurate long-term, i.e. November.

I think your readings are speaking to what is happening now. Obama is needing to re-evaluate his talk and he needs to begin to put his "money where his mouth is"...meaing he needs to step it up, and start using his eloquence more to his advantage, rather than holding back. He is a bit too reticent perhaps, or saying things without really backing them up.

McCain's narrow view and childish strategies ( in picking his VP) is beginning to be perceived by the people.

I asked the I Ching what are their chances of success at this point?
Obama : 37.1.5 to 52
McCain 64.4 to 4

Obama has successfully won the approval of many Americans, perhaps those of like mind in particular, and he is confident of his stand; the people feel confident in him. He represents stability in a time when that stand is needed.

McCain is determined and fighting for all he's worth. He may have some surprises up his sleeve yet. Maybe he has to work overtime now to off-set the opinion that Sarah Palin doesnt have the experience she needs. Maybe his rash choice for a running mate was not too wise.

I also asked the Yi about the effect this election campaign is having on the country. 39.0
I suppose many people feel like catwoman; there is no way ahead that feels right, it is a time for re-evaluating and looking closely for the strengths that can get through the major obstacles ahead.

and what hope is there for the american economy? 49.3.5 > 51
There needs to be a change, a complete change of strategy, but it seems as though it takes major shock for that to come about

shefa · Sep 22, 2008

Major shock indeed. This is change theory in action. A collapse of the old is needed to reorganize to a higher level of existence, otherwise the system will cease to exist. I heard no civilization has survived where people didn't save or plan for the future, and the US people overall are in negative savings. Ouch.

willowfox · Sep 22, 2008

bamboo said:
I asked the I Ching what are their chances of success at this point?
Obama : 37.1.5 to 52
McCain 64.4 to 4

Obama's answer indicates a return to his family, getting back to his old routine and Hex 52 talks of staying still, as in not going anywhere.

McCain's answer is extremely good as it quite clearly speaks of his fight to win America(the I.C calls it the Devil's country which I think is most apt) and the line goes on to say that his perseverance brings victory, the outcome will give him power and mastery over the American people for the foreseeable future. Hex 4? McCain the new boy in the White House preparing to learn the ropes of authority.

martin · Sep 22, 2008

Based on astrology I also believe that McCain has the better chances.
I posted about this in that loooooooong thread 'passing it on' in Open Space.

The period between election day and inauguration day coincides with Pluto moving into Capricorn (it did that before but now it will stay there) and McCain seems to have better connections with this Pluto than Obama.
He seems better attuned to the changing times.

Samgirl · Sep 22, 2008

Totally unrelated with the Yi answers, but I thought this was an interesting article. I'm not American though and I hope I am not offending anyone. I do kind of agree though.

bamboo · Sep 22, 2008

VERY VERY interesting artucle, samgirl. thank you so much for that.

martin · Sep 22, 2008

Samgirl said:
Totally unrelated with the Yi answers, but I thought this was an interesting article. I'm not American though and I hope I am not offending anyone. I do kind of agree though.

Hmm, it's a very simplistic and prejudiced article, IMO.
"She [Palin] is the reverse of Barack Obama, in essence his shadow, deriding his idealism and exhorting people to obey their worst impulses.
....
He [Obama] is calling for us to reach for our higher selves .."

Come on.
Obama is a good man, no doubt, but there is good on the other side too. And both sides have their shortcomings. What I see are human beings that are all pretty much on the same level.

But this is a hot topic and I guess it's better to discuss it in Outer Space, um, Open Space.

Samgirl · Sep 23, 2008

I just notice how hot is this topic in Open Space... I should have posted it there - didn't realize it!

I think Deepak is being simplistic as you say, but perhaps he is very simple so everybody understands what he means when using archetypes and perhaps he's too alarmed (I would) for how this is developing, but indeed, this is a topic for Open Space (although people get a bit nasty there I noticed...) -like in campaign. :footinmouth:

bamboo · Sep 23, 2008

You are right, it is nasty there and your quote from DC might be stepped on in OPen Space and I am glad you posted it here. I am glad to hear your words over in OPen Space, too, Samgirl, it was like anointing my forehead with oil. I am going to stay away from that thread (even tho i unleashed it!) and focus on message in Deepak's "simple" words.

Trojina · Sep 23, 2008

martin said:
Come on.
Obama is a good man, no doubt, but there is good on the other side too. And both sides have their shortcomings. What I see are human beings that are all pretty much on the same level.

But this is a hot topic and I guess it's better to discuss it in Outer Space, um, Open Space.

Er with respect i think its you who is being a tad simplistic here, well missing the point really. This isn't about who is a nice person and who isn't a nice person but about policies. Hmm if you like someone who wants millions of innocent people killed its pretty irrelevant really...its about what they will do, not their personality. i said same thing really over on the other thread.

martin · Sep 23, 2008

I'm responding to what Deepak writes, that Obama appeals to our higher self and Palin to the worst in us.
He is the one that is not talking about policies. If he did, I wouldn't object.
Of course I agree that it's not a matter of who is a nice or not so nice person.

Samgirl · Sep 23, 2008

bamboo said:
You are right, it is nasty there and your quote from DC might be stepped on in OPen Space and I am glad you posted it here. I am glad to hear your words over in OPen Space, too, Samgirl, it was like anointing my forehead with oil. I am going to stay away from that thread (even tho i unleashed it!) and focus on message in Deepak's "simple" words.

I think it is inevitable to have confrontations when discussing about issues that are representing the forces that DC talks about. It is precisely what he's talking about! I do think it is possible to stop for a moment and listen and look for what the other say and find where the agreement is -because right away or veeeeeeeery deep inside we all want the same -in the most purer essence of our souls. Now... how deep is the contact with have with our souls is only something that can be known by the effects of our actions I believe.

Ok... I don't want to give a lecture here so whatever I'm writing now is based on my own experience and how I see this world. I believe that in any case, it is a great exercise to learn to deal with our own battles. All these forces that are represented in the external are part of ourselves. That higher ideas that resonates more with us and we want to achieve are already part of us, and those things we tend to react violently against are also within us. What we see outside is a mirror of ourselves. This is what DC and many other authors/teachers are repeating every day and for me, it's 100 % true. I think DC is just talking about recognizing it and then act from there. What forces do we want to be led by?

Yesterday, I was watching on Youtube an excerpt of Inside the actor's studio compilation and it was a scene when Sharon Stone was talking about the last moments of a dear friend from her, who was dying a cause of AIDS. At one point this person die clinically for a few moments, and the he came back. She was with him at that moment. He was an in a state of shock when he was back and started to say: It's so beautiful!. "What's is it?" she said - thinking on the light at the end of the tunnel's stories... and he said: "It's all about love!" (you can see it here if you like, she tells the story so beautifully).

I am not against expressing opinions and differ, although I hope that whatever we do with our expression is driven by compassion and love, which of course, starts with our communication with oneself - the rest is just a consequence of this. I also heard a beautiful image about how to deal with our own darkness -I believe it comes from Rumi but I don't have the link to quote here, but paraphrasing is something like this: each one of us is a kind of "home" and all sensations, feelings and thoughts that comes are our guests. A good host acknowledge each one of his guests, regardless of their status, appearance, etc. In this way, none of them will rebel against the host, nor will feel neglected and in need of "calling for attention". Finally, what is unnecessary leaves silently, in peace and grateful for this acknowledgement.

Tohpol · Sep 23, 2008

Samgirl said:
I am not against expressing opinions and differ, although I hope that whatever we do with our expression is driven by compassion and love, which of course, starts with our communication with oneself - the rest is just a consequence of this. I also heard a beautiful image about how to deal with our own darkness -I believe it comes from Rumi but I don't have the link to quote here, but paraphrasing is something like this: each one of us is a kind of "home" and all sensations, feelings and thoughts that comes are our guests. A good host acknowledge each one of his guests, regardless of their status, appearance, etc. In this way, none of them will rebel against the host, nor will feel neglected and in need of "calling for attention". Finally, what is unnecessary leaves silently, in peace and grateful for this acknowledgement.

That's a lovely explication of belief Samgirl and I have a lot of sympathy with 99.9% of it. The problem we have with many of the people in the upper most positions of power is that they simply don't think that way. They can't and/or won't. Praying for peace simply won't cut it as history will tell you. Political systems are designed for the most ruthless to reach the top. And that is precisely what they do.

Something is missing from human consciousness in the ability to look at things as objectively as possible detached from programming and emotional reactions. Prayer and the outpouring of love has a science behind it imo. It isn't enough to project love and hope. Things change when there's enough folks willing to change themselves and translate that change into a living example as believe you said, but that has to be based on self-knowledge and the resistance of the inauthentic, lies and anything that reflects the fake both in ourselves and therefore externally. If we believe what we are told even when it is a lie - we affirm such lies and reinforce a subjective reality within ourselves.

Again, in World War I and most especially in World War II there millions upon millions perhaps even a billion or so people praying for world peace, praying that such horrible carnage did not occur. We know what the result was. Unless this outpouring of love, compassion and the will for peace and partnership is matched with knowledge effectively translated into practical action then the result will always be the same. The energy will be utilized sure, but not in the way that we think. Until we are able to detach ourselves from images, personalities and the general melee of the media circus that mirroring will continue to be reflected in our own ignorance and vice versa. I think the I Ching teaches this idea of objective knowledge in the deepest sense of the word.

I think the problem is one of Knowledge of our inner world BS and knowledge of our external world BS together in order to see the source of those many reflections. Otherwise the same old patterns will keep repeating. And this I think, is what lies immediately before us.

Topal

Samgirl · Sep 23, 2008

topal said:
That's a lovely explication of belief Samgirl and I have a lot of sympathy with 99.9% of it. The problem we have with many of the people in the upper most positions of power is that they simply don't think that way. They can't and/or won't. Praying for peace simply won't cut it as history will tell you. Political systems are designed for the most ruthless to reach the top. And that is precisely what they do.

Something is missing from human consciousness in the ability to look at things as objectively as possible detached from programming and emotional reactions. Prayer and the outpouring of love has a science behind it imo. It isn't enough to project love and hope. Things change when there's enough folks willing to change themselves and translate that change into a living example as believe you said, but that has to be based on self-knowledge and the resistance of the inauthentic, lies and anything that reflects the fake both in ourselves and therefore externally. If we believe what we are told even when it is a lie - we affirm such lies and reinforce a subjective reality within ourselves.

Again, in World War I and most especially in World War II there millions upon millions perhaps even a billion or so people praying for world peace, praying that such horrible carnage did not occur. We know what the result was. Unless this outpouring of love, compassion and the will for peace and partnership is matched with knowledge effectively translated into practical action then the result will always be the same. The energy will be utilized sure, but not in the way that we think. Until we are able to detach ourselves from images, personalities and the general melee of the media circus that mirroring will continue to be reflected in our own ignorance and vice versa. I think the I Ching teaches this idea of objective knowledge in the deepest sense of the word.

I think the problem is one of Knowledge of our inner world BS and knowledge of our external world BS together in order to see the source of those many reflections. Otherwise the same old patterns will keep repeating. And this I think, is what lies immediately before us.

Topal

You said it clear. I agree with you. I do think that we are already in the process of changing though. This forum is already a proof that there are a lot of people that are working already on this. It's not going to be done in one year, a decade or well, maybe a century, but we are already a lot different of what we were in the 60's, when was the time of the flower power. I think that with the current circumstances and knowing what we know and what has been so far it is almost impossible to picture this "ideal world" and it might sound naive even to talk about love -if we picture love as a pink heart and smiles all over. The change that I can perceive is something totally new, something that hasn't been practiced at all and that cannot be explain, because it is still unknown. I don't have a clue how the world would look when this shift of the consciousness becomes a reality everywhere... I know it wouldn't look like anything I know...

Tohpol · Sep 23, 2008

Samgirl said:
The change that I can perceive is something totally new, something that hasn't been practiced at all and that cannot be explain, because it is still unknown. I don't have a clue how the world would look when this shift of the consciousness becomes a reality everywhere... I know it wouldn't look like anything I know...

So, do you think we at the crossroads for some kind of a shift in consciousness? Is that imminent? Personally, I think so, but that actual shift could be more like a "branching" where one reality is birthed and the old one continues as before. The question as to who slips into that other reality could be based on many factors...if the theory is true at all.

Topal

Samgirl · Sep 23, 2008

topal said:
So, do you think we at the crossroads for some kind of a shift in consciousness? Is that imminent? Personally, I think so, but that actual shift could be more like a "branching" where one reality is birthed and the old one continues as before. The question as to who slips into that other reality could be based on many factors...if the theory is true at all.

Topal

Yeah, that's how I see it. For me it is not imminent but is already happening. Right now I couldn't be able to say where I am located personally. I HOPE I am branching towards this new "consciousness" and I FEAR all I am doing is trying to jump out from the old place but keep missing the jump.

Tohpol · Sep 23, 2008

Samgirl said:
Yeah, that's how I see it. For me it is not imminent but is already happening. Right now I couldn't be able to say where I am located personally. I HOPE I am branching towards this new "consciousness" and I FEAR all I am doing is trying to jump out from the old place but keep missing the jump.

Yeah, well, you are not alone. I guess the point is to make that jump into the unknown regardless. If there are enough people jumping then we can all give each other a soft landing...

Here's to hoping and Doing.

Topal

bamboo · Sep 23, 2008

Samgirl said:
You said it clear. I agree with you. I do think that we are already in the process of changing though. This forum is already a proof that there are a lot of people that are working already on this. It's not going to be done in one year, a decade or well, maybe a century, but we are already a lot different of what we were in the 60's, when was the time of the flower power. I think that with the current circumstances and knowing what we know and what has been so far it is almost impossible to picture this "ideal world" and it might sound naive even to talk about love -if we picture love as a pink heart and smiles all over. The change that I can perceive is something totally new, something that hasn't been practiced at all and that cannot be explain, because it is still unknown. I don't have a clue how the world would look when this shift of the consciousness becomes a reality everywhere... I know it wouldn't look like anything I know...

I agree. Love your posts and so glad you are sharing them. (loved the Actor's studio clip also!)

bamboo · Sep 24, 2008

Samgirl said:
Yeah, that's how I see it. For me it is not imminent but is already happening. Right now I couldn't be able to say where I am located personally. I HOPE I am branching towards this new "consciousness" and I FEAR all I am doing is trying to jump out from the old place but keep missing the jump.

A shift in consciousness is internal and irreversible. the frightened ego is what fears that it is 'missing the jump'. I don't think the collective shift in consciousness creates fragments. The old way is dying. It is like a 23.6. moment in time. Impossible to go backwards, the old way will not hold water anymore. efforts to align with the old way will eventually crumble, lose their "home." but new consciousness attains a carriage.
and moves on

Samgirl · Sep 24, 2008

bamboo said:
A shift in consciousness is internal and irreversible. the frightened ego is what fears that it is 'missing the jump'. I don't think the collective shift in consciousness creates fragments. The old way is dying. It is like a 23.6. moment in time. Impossible to go backwards, the old way will not hold water anymore. efforts to align with the old way will eventually crumble, lose their "home." but new consciousness attains a carriage.
and moves on

Wow... what a description for a birth... Beautiful.

Tara Brach is also one of those people that is helping out bringing awareness -she gives talks every Wednesday in the IMWC. There are talks about fear -among other things - in the archive audios. I found her talks very helpful for my everyday's walking.

Samgirl · Sep 24, 2008

topal said:
Yeah, well, you are not alone. I guess the point is to make that jump into the unknown regardless. If there are enough people jumping then we can all give each other a soft landing...

Here's to hoping and Doing.

Topal

LOL - soft landing is appealing... Perhaps it is as Bamboo says... the scary part of jumping is not failing the jump but knowing that wherever you fall is not the place you used to be. I'm trying to imaging the last moments of a baby inside the womb, just before the birth.

bamboo · Sep 24, 2008

I am enjoying Tara Brach. thanks for that as well, samgirl.

petrosianii · Sep 28, 2008

Taoist News

Whew! It's nice to know I'm not the only one who uses the I Ching in a quasi-fortune-telling manner! I wrote a post not long ago on my blog about what Taoist news might look like. It explored politics from a I Ching perspective:

http://ichingonline.blogspot.com/2008/04/what-would-taoist-news-look-like.html

Also, a further exposition of this theme can be found on my news page at

http://gnosisarts.com/nj-journalism-copywriting.html

It needs a fresh updating in light of more recent political news, but you get the point.

McCain Vs Obama

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