the 8 trigrams are also seen as 8 spirits and in that way seen as something where you can communicate with. You can get in contact with this 8 spirits.

But what are the 4 directions(old yang, old yin, young yang and young yin)? Also a sort of spirits and the two forces how can you see them.

What are your idea's about the 4 directions and the two forces?

Frank R

Hey Frank,

But what are the 4 directions(old yang, old yin, young yang and young yin)?

Click to expand...

Do you mean the directions of North, East, South and West? And what trigrams are you associating with old/young yin and yang? If you were to associate them by means of the time cycle, then Shake would be young Yang, Radiance is Old Yang - then Field merges the oldest, fading yang with the youngest emerging yin... And the yin hemicycle starts with Open as the young Yin, Gorge as the old Yin, and Bound would merge the oldest yin with the youngest yang, completing the cycle and starting a new. The snake eating its own tail.

What are your idea's about the 4 directions and the two forces?

Click to expand...

Could you clarify this a little more please? Are you asking how the forces of yin and yang operate according to the different time phases and 4 directions? And also, if we are going to study the 4 directions in detail, then we will need to agree what energies exist at the 4 points. I have some in my mind, but they may not be the same as you have, could you expand a little on your ideas here, so I may know what to offer back? Thanks again.

Hallo Betelgeuse,

"Do you mean the directions of North, East, South and West? And what trigrams are you associating with old/young yin and yang? "

Yes I mean the directions N, S, E and W. as being S old yang, N old yin, E young yang and W young yin. So it's more the duograms with the two lines. The trigrams with the three lines for me are the 8 spirits,

"Could you clarify this a little more please? Are you asking how the forces of yin and yang operate according to the different time phases and 4 directions? "

No my question was more can you see the 4 directions also as spirits or are they only directions and then they are solid so the only communication can be about where they are not what they are .

And where do the 2 forces yin and yang stand.

Frank R

Hey Frank, thanks for clarifying that

I did some research on this a while back, and found some interesting things, relating to the time cycle and the 4 directions.

The first thing I did was to take each hexagram and note the nuclear hexagrams for each. The reason I focused on the nuclear hexagrams was because I wanted to find a way to reduce complex energy back to its simple state. In the I ching, this 'simple state' is represented by Hexagrams 1 and 2, Force and Field. Now, nearly all the hexagrams can be diminished and reduced to their fundamental states of either 1 or 2. But there are some that do not revert back, they remain perpetually in a state of change. Much like atoms emit radiation because they are unstable, the I ching has hexagrams that perform identically.

Firstly, I will mention the hexagrams that DO revert back to their fundamental state of either pure yin or pure yang. The nuclears are as follows:-

hexagrams:- 1, 2, 23, 43, 24, 44, 27 and 28.
These are very important hexagrams linked with the primal forces of yin and yang, and the play a very important role in 'change.' If you locate these hexagrams on the 'Binary Cycle', you will see that Hexagrams 43, 1, 44 and 28 all form the Southern Polar region of the cycle. I call this area of the time cycle: 'The Southern Catalyst of Change', and all these 4 energies are responsible for engaging change there.

You will also note in the 'Binary Cycle', that hexagrams 23, 2, 24 and 27 all form the Northern Polar region of the cycle, and I call this area of the time cycle: 'the Northern Catalyst of Change.'
So, the directions of North and South are very significant areas, they represent a power-axis of energy - probably why the Earth has such magnetic properties.

Here is the second part, and this will relate to the directions of East and West. When reducing hexagrams to their nuclears, in addition to the hexagrams mentions above, you are left with 8 more hexagrams, these are as follows:-

37, 40, 38, 39, 53, 54, 63 and 64.

These hexagrams follow a different principle than all other hexagrams, because they CANNOT be reduced to their fundamental state of either Yin or Yan (1 or 2). These hexagrams, can only ever be reduced (by nuclear) to the hexagrams of 63 and 64.
For this reason, I have concluded that hexagrams 63 and 64 are known as the 'Catalysts of all Change'. This is because they remain in essentially an 'unstable' state. Again, drawing comparison to atomic physics, it is radiation and unstable elements that provide change in our universe, keeping it dynamic and moving. Hexagrams 63 and 64 provide this same principle in the I Ching.

When you apply these 8 hexagrams to the 'Binary Cycle', you will notice that they form a 'halo' around the directions of East and West. Unlike the Southern and Northern poles which have condensed energies sitting right on top of the polar regions, the East and West energies are further spread out. I believe this is because East and West are very importnant transformational areas of the Time Cycle. The Eastern point marks the end of the Yin hemicycle and the beginning of the yang hemicycle, and the Western point marks the end of the yang hemicycle and the beginning of the Yin hemicycle. But before this 'transformative' crossover is achieved, there has to be a merging of both cycles, yin and yang dancing together. Hexagrams 63 and 64 are perfect representations of this 'crossing over', they allow the two hemicycles to converge, transform and continue perpetually.

I will see if I can get a diagram of the time cycle I am speaking of, it will help visualising it all.

Matt

This is the best I could come up with in a short space of time.

I've marked the reocurring nuclear hexagrams on the diagram in red. You will notice that the 'fundamental' energies of change all accumulate together around the Northern and Southern Polar regions.

And the dynamic and chanageble energies - which cannot be broken down into pure states of yin and yang (1 and 2) are paired equally around the Eastern and Western regions. The hexagrams of 63 and 64 are the key energies to actually evoking change. They remain unstable in their essence, unable to return to a pure fundamental state, and they allow the 'crossing' and merging of the two hemicycles. Its interesting to note here... that hexagram 63 - known as 'Already Fording', could be re-interpreted as 'Positively Fording' - because it is introducing the start of the yang hemicycle and the end of the yin. And hexagram 64, which is known as 'Not yet (negative) Fording', could be re-interpreted as 'Negatively Fording', because it is introducing the start of the Yin Hemicycle and the end of the Yang. Or to say another way... the I Ching is simply describing the roles these two hexgrams play in the time cycle - 63 is fording the yang (positive) and 64 is fording the Yin (negative).

There is one more really interesting observation I made whilst I was working on all of this. As we all know, the Earth is tilted on its axis by 23.5 degrees. This is how the Seasons of Nature are able to flourish.

If you now look at the I ching binary cycle, and the corresponding nuclear energies, what do you see? Its a map of the Earths magnetic structure! The South and North poles hold the energy accumulated, this is the main axis.... But the East and West axis is vacant, there is not a similar accumulation of energy here that you find in the North and South. The energy is spread out... and you will find that each energy is approximately 22.5 degrees away from the Eastern point, either side of it. There is a definite correlation between the structure of the I ching relating to the binary cycle, and the Earths magnetic structure.

There is much more I have find out, but this gives some more substance to the 4 directions in the I ching.

Hai Matt,

thanks for sharing the information you found, I also use the nucleur hexagrams in astrology(see the tread about I Ching and astrology) and with studying acupuncture.

it gives again some more information about the four directions.

Best wishes Frank R

betelgeuse said:

...In the I ching, this 'simple state' is represented by Hexagrams 1 and 2, Force and Field. Now, nearly all the hexagrams can be diminished and reduced to their fundamental states of either 1 or 2. But there are some that do not revert back, they remain perpetually in a state of change.

Click to expand...

Matt, your work is so lovely I feel like I'm splitting hairs. But actually, it's exactly half of the hexagrams that have 1, 2, 23, 24, 27, 28, 43 or 44 as their nuclears and hence reduce ultimately to 1 or 2. The other half all have nuclear hexagrams of 37, 38, 39, 40, 53, 54, 63 or 64, and reduce in the end to the endless cycle of 63-64.

Now I've split that particular hair, I'll go back to enjoying your work

lol They are good hairs to split Hilary

My brain really had to strain a lot when I wrote the above information! I keep all my past work in a folder, and I am the messiest, most chaotic note-taker in the history of messy chaotic note-takers!! When I opened the folder to refresh my memory on the past work, it took me about 20 minutes just be able to figure out exactly what I meant lol

Thanks for pointing that out, you are quite right

Frank, I will have a look at the Astrology and I Ching thread. I've skimmed it briefly, but I would like to print it out and then study it in a little more depth. I believe there is value to be found in every approach, and then it is a question of conjoining all the bits of the pattern together, and finding something even more profound.

Nuclear hexagrams are a choice for the human part in hexagrams. They use the four central lines, all lines with a 'man' quality, either from the hexagram (lines 3 and 4) or from the two trigrams (lines 2 and 5). So they find the 'essence' of only that human part. The top line (heaven-heaven) and the bottom line (earth-earth) are left out.
The nuclear-of-nuclear use only lines 3 and 4, the 'man' lines of the hexagram. The trigrams are more universal than the hexagrams, so lines 3 and 4 are even more every-day-human or personal than lines 2 and 5, which are closer to 'mankind'.

Only hexagrams which have lines 3 and 4 both yang can ultimately reduce to 1, both yin to 2. Line 3 yin and 4 yang reduce to 64, and yang-yin to 63. These two lines are the cause you find the ultimate 4 nuclears arranged so neatly in the binary diagram. It is arranged according to the sequence of yin and yang in the subsequent lines, so by ordering the hexagrams this way, you put them evidently in the corners, and in fixed places in between. The corners are the places where top or bottom lines are changing, but not the central lines, so these two are identical. In-between the corners are the places where the central lines change, so there you find the yin-yang or the yang-yin, which reduce to 63 and 64.
So you don't 'find' them in those places.. you put them there yourself. Or the one who made the diagram.

When you focus on 'man' in the hexagrams, then the nuclears are important, but when you want to include 'all', not only man, then nuclears will not tell you very much, if anything at all.

LiSe

Hi Lise

Just in case the comment could be useful

In traditional teachings, there is no "nuclear hexagrams"; never. Because, that would be a misunderstanding of " Two Heavens Law".

An "hexagram" is a microcosmical description of a manifestation wich includes the way some Subject interacts with some Objective situation

"External trigrams" clarify this interaction: lower trigram is subjective-mind-inner description; higher trigram is an objective-action-outer description.

"Nuclear trigrams" shows macrocosmical influences within that particular microcosmical manifestation. An that is derivated from the "2 Heavens Law": any microcosmical manifestation is like an eco of previous macrocosmical changes. Nuclear trigrams shows those macrocosmical influences. Because those influences are macrocosmical ("non-manifested" in the microcosmical realm) some times what is called "nuclear hexagram" seems to be "unmanifested posibilities" (Karcher) or "the hidden core" (Molinero) or even "what no to do" (Ritsema)

But if you are aware of "2 heavens Law", you cann't made a "nuclear hexagram", beacuse there cann't be a microcosmical description of macrocosmical issues (only a microcosmical description of it's influences, and that is the primary hexagram already). And that's why some times what is called "nuclear hexagrams" are of not use .

If you follow ancient divinations, you could find the use of nuclear trigrams; but you cannt find the use of nuclear hexagrams.

Of course, I'm not saying "this is idea is the only truth". I know in modern Western use of Yi Jing "nuclear hexagrams" have a high value. Just want to point to another aproach. Every one should experiment and discern about this.

Best wishes

I never use nuclears myself, but it seems several people do and with good results. So I just left it open.

I agree with your 'microcosmical influence' of macrocosmical issues, being the hexagram itself.

LiSe