64. Wei Chi / Before Completion

rosada · Feb 8, 2010

64. Wei Chi / Before Completion

-----
-- -- above LI THE CLINGING, FLAME
-----
-- --
----- below K'AN THE ABYSMAL, WATER
-- --

This hexagram indicates a time when the transition from disorder to order is not yet completed. The change is indeed prepared for, since all the lines in the upper trigram are in relation to those in the lower. However, they are not yet in their places. While the preceding hexagram offers an analogy to autumn, which forms the transition from summer to winter, this hexagram presents a parallel to spring, which leads our of winter's stagnation into the fruitful time of summer. With this hopeful outlook the Book of Changes comes to its close.
-Wilhelm

Sparhawk · Feb 8, 2010

tuckchang · Feb 8, 2010

Ji Ji is attained after the previous 62 hexagrams have been unfolded in the wake of Qian and Kun; the I Ching has accomplished its mission, however the world won’t stop hereafter.

Water tends to flow downward, while flames blaze upwards; in following the course of Nature, the trigram Li of Ji Ji ascends to the top and the trigram Kan descends to the bottom, wherein the hexagram Wei Ji is formed, and wherein the masculine, the founder and the leader, and the feminine, the assistant and the follower, are positioned at the posts inappropriate to them but they are in correlation with each other.

Nominally the water of the bottom trigram Kan and the fire of the bottom trigram Li have no interplay and move away in the opposite directions; physically the water of the inner upper trigram Kan (from line 3 to 5) and the fire of the inner bottom trigram Li (from line 2 to 4) is mingling with each other, relieving and aiding (to generate steam and power), as well as tending to terminate each other.

The masculine and the feminine restart to seek the position suited to them, respectively, and wherein it is teeming with the requirements and possibilities of changes. The world of the I Ching resumes and will be circling and circling ceaselessly.

Regards
Tuck :bows:

fkegan · Feb 9, 2010

Hi Luis,

Lovely image of the fire burning on its container supported on long logs with a totally separate pot of water underneath waiting like the fellow on the leaf for things to happen.

Personally, I would think of the fellow on his giant leaf hammock contemplating the sun still well away from the horizon and setting into the sea for sunset.

Either way it is trigram fire above trigram water which looks more attractive than the other way around in hex 63.

Frank

elvis · Feb 9, 2010

http://www.emotionaliching.com/lofting/bx101010.html

ravenstar · Feb 9, 2010

The poem that follows seems to be very 64ish......

MAN MAKES HIMSELF
David Craig

The ape-man grips a clumsy axe
And ushers in the man.
But when he's cracked a bone with it
He let it drop as done.

After five hundred thousand years
He chips the double edge
And stares at the advancing ice
Under his forehead ridge.

Soon he will think before he moves
And feel before he speaks
And cutting with the single edge
Discuss before he makes.

Soon he will eat the souls of bears,
Want what he cannot have,
And paint a bird he never saw
On the wall of a hidden cave.

Because of these two million years
The man is housed and shod
And upright (in the physical sense)
But still he dreams of gods.

Now he racks himself between
The body and the soul
And will not trust his mastery
of language and of tool.

His eyes turn inwards more than out
Look up and sigh for more.
And while his body rests, a soul
Creeps in at the back door.

How many generations more
Before our kingdom comes
And dying and living for this world,
We make ourselves at home.

ravenstar

meng · Feb 9, 2010

64 is the ah before the ha.

my_key · Feb 9, 2010

Perhaps something like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZswoD2Sijf4

rodaki · Feb 9, 2010

how about this for 64? . .

"Good Morning" by Clark Little

rosada · Feb 9, 2010

64. Before Completion

The ruler of the hexagram is the six in the fifth place, because BEFORE COMPLETION implies a time in which at first disorder prevails, then finally order. The six in the fifth place is in the outer trigram and initiates the time of order. Therefore it is said int eh Commentary on the Decision: "'BEFORE COMPLETION. Success.' For the yielding attains the middle."

THE SEQUENCE
Things cannot exhaust themselves. Hence there follows, at the end, the hexagram of BEFORE COMPLETION.

MISCELLANEOUS NOTES
BEFORE COMPLETION is the exhaustion of the masculine.
-Wilhelm

maremaria · Feb 9, 2010

Above : Flame
Below : Water

Photo by jurvetson

meng · Feb 10, 2010

rodaki said:
how about this for 64? . .

"Good Morning" by Clark Little

Works for me. It's in the same spirit of ah of the ha. It is not yet.

"The fruits of art have to be ‘not yet’, the abundance of summer, before the harvest." LiSe

So when you see a breathtaking work of art, you go ahhh - as though you get it, but not in a way that's gotten.

rosada · Feb 10, 2010

I love how the reflection of the flames in the water suggests I Ching lines.

rodaki · Feb 10, 2010

hmmm . . so today I woke up with the following story in my head (it seems that the snow that keeps falling is turning my darkest prose into some sort of fairytale -kinda makes me feel like a pumpkin :bag

Mr Little -a good sport- gets up every day before sunrise to set off on his explorations. His mission, you might ask? Well, what else but to catch the Big Kahuna and land safely on shore without getting his tail . . sorry, I meant his camera in the water . . . Have no doubts, Mr Little knows the journey is long and he will have to steer amidst long turbulent corridors to accomplish his aim but, luckily for us, Mr Little is a brave and learned student of all 63 chapters of the venerable "Surfing the Changes" scrolls, which he keeps in the great chest of drawers located in the farthest corner of his office -and that is a piece of information he will only confide to those who can ask annoying questions and the reason for that he won't confide to anyone (sigh) . .

So just like every day, here is Mr Little, charging before sunrise onto his mission. The crowd gathers on shore to see off the surfer who is getting ready to plunge ahead, while those who have snooped around the 63 chapters of the venerable scrolls that Mr Little keeps in the great chest of drawers in the farthest corner of his office, know that he's not out to catch any Big Kahuna -that's just children stories anyway, but don't tell it to anyone cause Mr Little would be very upset if he found out I told you- that his real mission is not to keep his tail . . sorry, his camera(!) out of water but to catch the dawn by its tale . .

The crowd on shore holds its breath . . . will Mr Little make it this time?? . . .

:bows:

maremaria · Feb 10, 2010

nice story Dora

maremaria · Feb 10, 2010

rosada said:
I love how the reflection of the flames in the water suggests I Ching lines.

I love that photo too. The phoenix bird on fire ... not yet ashes

rosada · Feb 10, 2010

Interesting to me how Wilhelm says under "Miscellaneous notes..

BEFORE COMPLETION is the exhaustion of the masculine."

Reminds me of 1.6 - 2.1 with the dragon flying too high and becoming exhausted (or something) and then winter springs eternal in 2.1.

I'm traveling tomorrow and expect I'll be back with at a computer by Thursday but if not please carry on with out me.
Rosada

p.s. Gonna post the last of the Wilhelm comment. Warning, I know the hexagram is about water but this is really dry...

rosada · Feb 10, 2010

This hexagram is at once the inverse and the opposite of the preceding one. K'an and Li, both as nuclear and as primary trigrams, have changed places. The hexagram depicts the transition from Pi, STANDSTILL (12) to T'ai, PEACE (11).

Outwardly viewed, none of the lines appears in its proper place; but they are all in relationship to one another, and order stands preformed within, despite the outward appearance of complete disorder.

The strong middle line haas come down from the fifth place to the second and has thus established a connection. It is true that K'un is not yet above nor Chien below, as in the hexagram T'ai, but their representatives, Li and K'an, are in these positions. Li and K'an represent K'un and Ch'ien in spirit and influence (because of their respective middle lines).
In the phenomenal world (Sequence of Later Heaven) they are the representatives of K'un and Ch'ien, and stand in the regions of the latter - Li in the south and K'an in the north.
-Wilhelm

rodaki · Feb 10, 2010

maremaria said:
nice story Dora

thanks Maria

it's almost as if it was dreamt up, not really mine, I just wrote it down . . :bag:

rodaki · Feb 10, 2010

. . it would be nice if the story of Mr Little continues, maybe anyone else out there would like to give a hand for the next part

rosada · Feb 12, 2010

THE JUDGEMENT

BEFORE COMPLETION, Success.
But if the little fox, after nearly completing the crossing,
Gets his tail in the water,
There is nothing that would further.

The conditions are difficult. The task is great and full of responsibility. It is nothing less than that of leading the world out of confusion back to order. But it is a task that promises success, because there is a goal that can unite the forces now tending in different directions. At first, however, one must move warily, like an old fox over ice. The caution of a fox walking over ice is proverbial in China. His ears are constantly alert to the cracking of the ice, as he carefully and circumspectly searches out the safest spots. A young fox who as yet has not acquired this caution goes ahead boldly, and it may happen that he falls in and gets his tail wet when he is almost across the water. Then of course his effort has all been in vain. Accordinly, in times "before completion," deliberation and caution are the prerequisites of success.
-Wilhelm

rosada · Feb 12, 2010

Bumpersticker:

It will all turn out okay in the end.
If it's not okay - it's not the end.

tuckchang · Feb 13, 2010

64

The river is so wide; it starts from position 2 of the hexagram Ji Ji and continues from position 1 of the hexagram Wei Ji up to its position 5. The inexperienced, little fox restarts the journey of crossing the river after the head of line 6 of Ji Ji is deluged by the river.

Text: Wei Ji (not having crossed the river or completed yet), smooth progress; a little fox has almost succeeded in crossing the river, (but) wets its tail; nothing is favorable.
Confucius's remarks: Wei Ji, smooth progress; tenderness attains the middle position (of the upper trigram). A little fox has almost succeeded in crossing the river; yet it hasn’t departed from the middle (of the river). Wetting its tail; there is nothing favorable, (as) it doesn’t continue to the end. Although (they are) not at the right positions, rigidity and tenderness correlate with each other.

Line 5 is the founding and the host line, i.e. the little fox and the one of tenderness which progresses smoothly, reaches position 5 and attains the middle position of the upper trigram Li: brightness, civilization…, as signified per the attached sketch from the perspective of the hexagram formation; it has passed the bottom trigram Kan: the river, and reaches the end of the inner upper trigram Kan, but not yet at the end of Wei Ji, position 6, i.e. the riverbank. Hence, nothing is favorable since it has not completely crossed the river but halts before the end.
The text suggests: it progresses smoothly; however this is only to plough the air since it doesn’t last to the end.

The hexagram Wei Ji is definitely not a negative hexagram as the I Ching always tries to tell us: good fortunate contains misfortune, while misfortune contains good fortune.
The bottom trigram of Wei Ji is Kan, peril, while its upper trigram is Li: brightness, civilization ….., and the riverbank is at position 6. From the perspective of the hexagram developping along the timeline, the hexagram will become Tai (11) if the other lines (i.e. lines 1 and 3) of the bottom trigram continue to move forth in following line 2. The line text elaborates how to evade peril when the line is in Kan and how to maintain the achievement after having left the Kan and reaching Li, but we have to follow what the I Ching advises.

Regards
Tuck :bows:

fkegan · Feb 13, 2010

The conditions are difficult. The task is great and full of responsibility. It is nothing less than that of leading the world out of confusion back to order. But it is a task that promises success, because there is a goal that can unite the forces now tending in different directions.

This is the final hexagram of the I Ching. It is considered the hopeful conclusion to the Yi. Yet the details in the commentary talk about the failure of the young fox as a cautionary tale. In other words, it is hopeful to try to make the world all better, but expect doubt and criticism until after you succeed.

I think about President Obama and Sarah Palin's ridicule of the hopey changey thing.
Leadership requires folks who are ready, willing and able to follow. In difficult times, such as crossing a frozen river the best and worst is brought out in most folks.

Frank

elvis · Feb 13, 2010

"The hexagram Wei Ji is definitely not a negative hexagram as the I Ching always tries to tell us: good fortunate contains misfortune, while misfortune contains good fortune."

It is local context that determines the colouring of a hexagram, and so its emotional content. 64 as such covers (a) mis-sequencing but also (b) staying open, avoiding closure to benefit from such.

We can assess situations using consciousness/reason but it is better to use emotion as that can give us insights as to what is influencing things unconsciously. the price of such is a possible LOSS in precision in the assessment where consciousness can contribute to such with its higher level of precision (but also be wary of consciousness suppressing unconscious assessments)

rosada · Feb 13, 2010

THE JUDGEMENT

BEFORE COMPLETION. Success.
But if the little fox, after nearly completing the crossing, Gets his tail in the water,
There is nothing that would further.

COMMENTARY ON THE DECISION
"BEFORE COMPLETION. Success." For the yielding attains the middle.
"The little fox has nearly completed the crossing":
he is not yet past the middle.
"He gets his tail in the water. There is nothing that would further." Because the matter does not go on to the end.
Although the lines are not in their appropriate places, the firm and the yielding neverthe less correspond.

K'an has the fox as its symbol, and also denotes water. There is hope of success because the firm and the weak lines all correspond. The ruler of the hexagram, the six in the fifth place, has reached the middle, and this insures the right attitude for bringing about completion. The nine in the second place, on the other hand, has not yet passed the middle, and in its case this is dangerous. It is a strong line hemmed in between two yin lines. Like the incautious young fox that runs rashly over the ice, it relies too much on its strength. Therefore it gets its tail wet; the crossing does not succeed.
-Wilhelm

rosada · Feb 15, 2010

THE IMAGE

Fire over water:
The image of the condition before transition.
Thus the superior man is careful
In the differentiation of things,
So that each finds its place.

When fire, which by nature flames upward, is above, and water, which flows downward, is below, their effects take opposite directions and remain unrelated, If we wish to achieve an effect, we must first investigate the nature of the forces in question and ascertain their proper place. If we can bring these forces to bear in the right place, they will have the desired effect, and completion will be achieved. But in order to handle external forces properly, we must above all arrive at the correct standpoint ourselves, for only from this vantage can we work correctly.
-Wilhelm

charly · Feb 15, 2010

rodaki said:
. . it would be nice if the story of Mr Little continues, maybe anyone else out there would like to give a hand for the next part

Hi, Dora:

I believe that the story of Mr. Little never ends. Even more, I'm not sure if Little is a gentleman, a lady or maybe one or another depending upon circumstances.

First of all here Mr. Little is, of course, the Little Fox {小 xiao3 狐hu2) that wets its tail.

Tails are sensible parts of the folk anathomy of foxes. It can be a weakeness or it can be a strenght.

Some foxes geting into holes forget the tail out, with lamentable results. These foxes can be caught by the tail. Fatal.

Ghost foxes, in chinese or japanese folklore, use to get supernumerary tails trough experience, and, given that they are immortals, can have much tails, that can be a strenght if they use the tails for something profitable for themselves or can be a weakeness, too much parts from where they can be caught.

I believe that FOXES always stand for HUMAN NATURE and that when the YI speaks of foxes is speaking of ourselves.

Life is usually a great tangle [or deceit], and human beings are so LITTLE, so SMALL... It makes good for one to have some GREAT ANCESTOR from whom borrow something of that greatness reflected.

Lin Yutang: With Love and Irony.Ch.38.
[I apologize, I'm quoting from the spanish version]

Think at these chinese curiosities:

狐 hú : fox
狐狸 hú li : the fox; (abusive) a bewitching woman, (abusive) a vixen
狐媚 hú mèi :to flatter, bewitch with feminine charms
狐仙 hú xiān : a fox spirit oft. appearing as old man gifted in fortunetelling
狐疑 hú yí : be suspicious, as a fox is reputed to be
狐狸精 : hú li jīng : fox-spirit [1] / vixen / witch / enchantress

_______________________
[1] male or female but always interested in sexual intercourse, not always bad people, sometimes even good wives and mothers.

Maybe H.64 has a special message for FORTUNETELLERS, like US.

狐 hú is composed of DOG (or ANIMAL) at the left and MELON at the right. I was said that in the true origin it was DOG + ORPHAN, say, THE LONELY DOG. But lonely or not it remain the fact that there is in the character a MELON, or maybe a GOURD or a PUMPKIN, all symbols of FERTILITY / FEMINITY.

Maybe THE DOG THAT LIKES ... WOMEN?

All the best,

Charly

fkegan · Feb 16, 2010

Hex 64 Before Completion or Eve

This is the final hexagram of the last 4 hexagrams after the six full sets of 10 of the I Ching. It is the hexagram of the process of getting things done. The premise of the I Ching is that the universe is in constant flux and therefore in each and every timing possible the important message is: Consider what is coming Next!

This hexagram, the last of the entire I Ching is all about the Next as it is developing now and will manifest in response to all current efforts. Thus this timing is Eve either in the sense of say Christmas Eve filled with anticipation of what comes Next or Adam and Eve where she is the potential to give birth to all mankind.

In the timing of the process of the Next there are two possible eventualities or potentials impending: achieving success completing your initiative or failing.

Frank

charly · Feb 16, 2010

tuckchang said:
... Although not at the right positions, rigidity and tenderness correlate with each other...
... The hexagram Wei Ji is definitely not a negative hexagram as the I Ching always tries to tell us: good fortunate contains misfortune, while misfortune contains good fortune...

Hi, Tuck:

I agree with you that H.64 is not at all of bad omen.

Reviewing the prognostications:

H.64:
无wu2 [without / not / no / avoid]
攸you1 [distant / far]
利li4 [ benefit / profit / profitable]
NO FAR PROFITABLE
Meaning, I believe, not VERY profitable, but a little, or maybe, not profitable for going FAR.

64.1
吝lin4 [stingy]
Meaning NOT GENEROUS or simply DAMN! PORCA MISERIA!
Getting the tail wet: Sh_t!
But avoiding such an accident, no bad.

64.2
貞zhen1 [chaste / perseverance / divination] 吉ji2 [fortunate /lucky]
LUCKY OMEN,
Good.

64.3
凶 xiong1 [fierce / terrible / ominous]
What is ominous here is to attack before crossign the river (1), that's the reason why it follows:
利li4 [profitable]
涉she4 [to wade / to cross]
大da4 [big / large / great]
川chuan1 [river / creek / stream]
PROFITABLE TO CROSS THE BIG RIVER.
Don't attack too soon, preferable just cross the river first.
If crossing, all content.

64.4
悔hui3 [regret / remorse]
亡wang2 [perish / vanish / disappear]
REMORSE VANISHES.
All change for good. Don't worry.

64.5
貞zhen1 [chaste / perseverance / divination]
吉ji2 [fortunate /lucky]
无wu2 [without / not / no / avoid]
悔hui3 [regret / remorse]
LUCKY OMEN. NO REGRETS.
All be for good.

64.6
无wu2 [without / not / no / avoid]
咎jiu4 [blame / mistake]
NO BLAME.
No mistake. No wrong.

If we are in time of crossing a big river, better to focuse in crossing it. For after doing it comes the good.

Not a bad promise, I believe.

Yours,

Charly

_________________
(1) 征zheng1 means not only to attack also means:
levy troops / levy taxes / journey / trip / punitive expedition
Even, for some authors, can be translated as to be upright

64. Wei Chi / Before Completion

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