63. Chi Chi / After Completion

rosada · Jan 6, 2010

63. Chi Chi / After Completion

-----
-- -- above THE ABYSMAL, WATER
-----
-- --
----- below LI THE CLINGING, FIRE
-- --

This hexagram is the evolution of T'ai, PEACE (11). The transition from confusion to order is completed, and everything is in its proper place even in particulars. The strong lines are in strong places, the weak are in weak places. This is a very favorable outlook, yet it gives reason for thought. For it is just when perfect equilibrium has been reached that any movement may cause order to revert to disorder. The one strong line that has moved to the top, thus effecting complete order in details, is followed by the other lines, each moving according to its nature, and thus suddenly there arises again the hexagram P'i, Standstill (12).
Hence the present hexagram indicates the conditions of a time of climax, which necessitate the utmost caution.
-Wilhelm

neegula · Jan 6, 2010

rosada said:
For it is just when perfect equilibrium has been reached that any movement may cause order to revert to disorder.

still i see that my mind doesn't accept this completely

i was thinking about this detail yesterday evening, with no particular feeling nor practical circumstances related to it, just watching it ...and watching myself about it...

tuckchang · Jan 6, 2010

濟 (ji4) of 既濟 (ji4 ji4), according to 說文解字 (shui1 wen2 jie3 zi4), is the name of a river, and according to 爾雅 (re3 ya3), to cross a river. 既 (ji4) signifies ‘already’. In following the sequence, the I Ching arrives at Ji Ji after having passed through (or unfolded) the precedent 62 hexagrams. Ji Ji is annotated in most of Chinese I Ching’s writings as: having already crossed the river, i.e. completion.

In the I Ching, there are many great rivers needed to cross. What does ‘crossing a great river’ mean to people three thousand years ago? A person stood alone at the bank of a great, rolling river with a canoe or raft; the way ahead was teeming with danger but he had to cross it, signifying there must be something very important to him at the other side. The troops must cross the great river to conquer the enemy, and a tribe must cross the great river to find a holy land…; all have critical influences on the future. Imho, to cross the great river is an important but dangerous mission, and it must be done in order to attain the final goal; it is the end of a mission in terms of stages and the starting point of undertaking what is planned after the river is crossed. Therefore Wei Ji (64 / 未wei4: not yet, 濟ji4: to cross the river): not having crossed the river yet, comes next after ji ji.

Ji Ji signifies success and it is a happy ending (like a case that the hexagram obtained through divination changes to Ji Ji), as all the lines reach their right positions, amicably neighbor and correlate with one another; but according to its texts, it is a bad beginning (like obtaining hexagram 63 unchanging) as described: it is auspicious in the beginning but will become disorderly at the end, and things will progress slightly smoothly hereafter, or only the small task will progress smoothly, since ambitions and pride might follow success and result in failure, or a lengthy period of stability might lead to stalemate and recklessness in the face of crises. Therefore one must lower the sail, and it is advantageous to persist in maintaining what has been achieved.

Regards
Tuck :bows:

fkegan · Jan 6, 2010

Hex 63 as one of the final four hexagrams expresses its meaning in its line pattern. Here each line is in its correct place, that is all the odd numbered places are Yang and all the even numbered places are Yin. The only Completion implied is that detail of line value simplicity. Unlike hex 1 or 2 the nuclear hexagram to 63 is not the same but its opposite hex 64 thus the sense that this hexagram represents a timing in flux which starts out with everything in its 'proper' place but its next development will be something else and therefore the commentaries that things have touched Completion but are already caught up in the process of coming apart.

This is not Completion in the sense of a job well done. This is Completion in terms of having put pieces together as you wish but without dealing with anyone or anything else so that your initiative is now at the mercy of the reaction of everything else to your blind ambition.

Frank

elvis · Jan 7, 2010

* In the traditional sequence hexagram 63 pairs with hexagram 64.

MIXING:

63 : mixing - through closure, completion, correct sequence; 63 completion, closure, comes from a context described by hexagram 53 - maturing

64 : mixing - through open, non-closure, incorrect sequence; 64 non-completion, remain open comes from a context described by hexagram 54 - immaturing

In the use of the I Ching as a language, 63 is representative of completion and as such of purpose/goal. Thus XORing 63 with any hexagram will describe, by analogy to some other hexagram, how that hexagram expresses completion/purpose. This can be exploited in that a situation's 63-ness can be used to nip the situation in the bud by prematurly introducing its completion.

* In the binary sequence hexagram 63 pairs with hexagram 37.

This pairing reflects an overall focus on completion in the form of 'correct structure'. In hexagram 37 the differentiating bias is to a particular in the form of tension release where "a first daughter is a first daughter" and a "third son is a third son", in other words there is no competition and the context overall acts as a cause of tension release, that context being ANY collective but the metaphor of a family is used to get the point across.. Hexagram 63 focuses on correctness leading to the completion of something, of getting the sequence of events 'right' and so we also see a focus on 'correct structure'.

* In the binary sequence hexagram 63 opposes hexagram 64.

This pairing reflects the differences in (a) remaining open (64) vs (b) focusing on closure and 'correct' ordering (63).

frank_r · Jan 7, 2010

63

63 is that you understand and also can be in the opposite. Fire and water are the eyes of the yin/yang fish in the Tai Qi symbol. It are the 3 and 6 in the enneagrams.

Fire is yang in heaven and earth, and as a human being understand the symbiose between these two yang forces, this is comming as consiousness(true yin).
Water is yin in heaven and earth, and as a human being,understand the symbiose between these two yin forces, this is comming as vitality.(true yang)

Together this gives us the possibilty to understand that there is always some yin in yang and vic versa. This is understanding eternity, solving a koan, live a paradox.

Frank

meng · Jan 7, 2010

Originally Posted by rosada
For it is just when perfect equilibrium has been reached that any movement may cause order to revert to disorder.

neegula said:
still i see that my mind doesn't accept this completely
i was thinking about this detail yesterday evening, with no particular feeling nor practical circumstances related to it, just watching it ...and watching myself about it...

What did you observe?

ravenstar · Jan 8, 2010

frank_r said:
63 is that you understand and also can be in the opposite. Fire and water are the eyes of the yin/yang fish in the Tai Qi symbol. It are the 3 and 6 in the enneagrams.

Fire is yang in heaven and earth, and as a human being understand the symbiose between these two yang forces, this is comming as consiousness(true yin).
Water is yin in heaven and earth, and as a human being,understand the symbiose between these two yin forces, this is comming as vitality.(true yang)

Together this gives us the possibilty to understand that there is always some yin in yang and vic versa. This is understanding eternity, solving a koan, live a paradox.

Frank

Hi Frank,

Going with the enneagrams 3 and 6....this is what I found

http://pstypes.blogspot.com/2009/04/enneagram-misidentifications-type-three.html

On the blog, the 3 and 6 meanings are directly opposite each other.....

Three
Want the spotlight
Success
Impressive
Composed
Admirably smooth
Confident appearance
Emotionally reserved
Cool
Optimistic

Six Avoid the spotlight
Security
Dependable
Nervous
Endearingly awkward
Visible insecurity
Emotionally intense
Reactive
Pessimistic

So as an example and to quote rosada

For it is just when perfect equilibrium has been reached that any movement may cause order to revert to disorder

it could look something like this....

First, let's say there's a problem and you don't know what the problem could possibly be, then you do know what it is but you don't know what to do about it. Then you know what to do about it but old stuff, old issues keep stopping you from doing it. Then you're forced to look at your stuff and you sort through it enough to find a solution. Now you know what to do but not how to do it. Ack!

Through this whole process at some point you discover your center, your ground, your Self and what seemed a confused life pattern becomes a clearly determined spiritual path. There's a feeling of being reconnected to an inner strength that leads to making a major shift in focus. You now see your assets and limitations with an 'equal eye'. Intuitive insight with common sense reveals startling revelations about your life direction. You know just what you can do and go enthusiastically go after it.

Is this the premise of HEX 63?

ravenstar

Trojina · Jan 8, 2010

no pic from Luis yet, hope he's okay...hmm will be interested to see how 63 is depicted on his cards

Trojina · Jan 8, 2010

neegula said:
still i see that my mind doesn't accept this completely
i was thinking about this detail yesterday evening, with no particular feeling nor practical circumstances related to it, just watching it ...and watching myself about it...

re Wilhelms "..any movement may cause order to revert to disorder" I think it may be slightly over stated because i see it as because all is always in flux once perfection has been reached inevitably at some point it will become once again imperfect. We know 'any movement' will always happen, nothing stands still so i don't think we are being counselled not to move.., just to be aware of the nature of things and not rest on our laurels too much...

To be very mundane about it I lost count of the times i got 63 unchanging regarding purchases that seemed perfect to me that I asked about before splashing the cash. Taking the answer as basically 'yup done deal', going ahead with the purchase and it indeed being a very good purchase that meets my needs perfectly I take the 'reversion to disorder' in those instances the simple fact that these items will inevitably in time either wear out, break or no longer suit my needs. They were perfect on the day of purchase...from that time on they will be constantly reverting to disorder....a bit like the human body...er past the age of er...

Everything works perfectly at 25, maybe a few things are a bit worn by age 65. The law of entropy ? Not as in 18...cos i am straying to 18 territory..but i think 63 is the moment of all being well as it is and the 'revert to disorder' is just a reminder it won't always be, hex 64 is just down the road.

And of course 'disorder' sounds a negative thing but it is really something still becoming and 63 something that seems to have become to its fulfillment in the current cycle (of the question)...but there is always another cycle...and so to 64

we haven't arrived always and forever in 63, we've just arrived in fulfilling one particular cycle ...

lol this suddenly reminded me of washing the dishes...the dishes are washed, all is perfect BUT from that moment on the counter will gradually become littered with dirty cups and so on...any movement whatsoever will destroy the perfection...but you gotta eat !

meng · Jan 8, 2010

trojan said:
no pic from Luis yet, hope he's okay...hmm will be interested to see how 63 is depicted on his cards

He's fine, visiting his family in Central America.

Sparhawk · Jan 8, 2010

Sparhawk · Jan 8, 2010

Howdy!! Happy New Year to one and all.

Special thanks go to Bruce and Sergio and Ed Hacker for getting in touch with me with their concerns. As Bruce says above, I was visiting family in Uruguay for the holidays. First time in 15 years that I had the chance to take a break and go there. Back home now. Lots of fun and a few "unwelcomed and thoroughly enjoyed" extra pounds... I can divine a new year's resolution to shed those off.

Trojina · Jan 8, 2010

meng · Jan 8, 2010

Interesting image. Water heating over the fire. The small ding he holds could be to take from the pot, but I'm wondering if rather what is suggested is that he controls the heat of the fire with water in his ding. (ok, I guess that sounds like something Charly might say, but I'm not referring to his penis

).

my_key · Jan 8, 2010

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6ZegjrEIGQ

rosada · Jan 8, 2010

The ruler of the hexagram is the six in the second place. The hexagram of AFTER COMPLETION means that at first good fortune prevails and in the end disorder. The six in the second place is in the inner trigram at the time when good fortune begins. Therefore it is said in the Commentary on the Decision: "'At the beginning good fortune': the yielding has attained the middle."

THE SEQUENCE

He who stands above things brings them to completion. Hence there follows the hexagram of AFTER COMPLETION.

MISCELLANEOUS NOTES

AFTER COMPLETION means making firm.

This hexagram is the only one in which all the lines stand in their proper places. It is the hexagram of transition from T'ai, PEACE (11) to P'i, STANDSTILL (12). It contains the two primary trigrams K'an water, and Li, fire, which likewise, in the reverse order, constitute its nuclear trigrams. K'an strives downward and Li upward; hence the outer and the inner organization of the hexagram create a state of equilibrium that is obviously unstable.
-Wilhelm

rosada · Jan 8, 2010

I don't understand this idea that After Completion "is the hexagram of transition from T'ai, PEACE (11) to P'i, STANDSTILL (12)."
Can someone please help me out here and explain what Wilhelm is getting at?
Thanks!
-Rosada

rodaki · Jan 8, 2010

ravenstar said:
Through this whole process at some point you discover your center, your ground, your Self and what seemed a confused life pattern becomes a clearly determined spiritual path. There's a feeling of being reconnected to an inner strength that leads to making a major shift in focus. You now see your assets and limitations with an 'equal eye'. You know just what you can do and go enthusiastically go after it.

Is this the premise of HEX 63?

ravenstar

wow ravenstar (good to have you back btw

)
I don't know if this is the premise of 63 but you have just described here the past 2 days for me!! (with uncanny accuracy too

)

63: 'Wrap it up'???

tuckchang · Jan 9, 2010

rosada said:
I don't understand this idea that After Completion "is the hexagram of transition from T'ai, PEACE (11) to P'i, STANDSTILL (12)."
-Rosada

I would like to provide my comprehesion for your reference.

64 hexagrams of I Ching are somehow arrayed according to the life philosophy of Confucian thought in following the natural course rather than the hexagram evolution; however the I Ching does talk about the formation of a hexagram, particularly on the hexagram composed of three each masculine and feminine line. Usually the movement of the masculine and the feminine in terms of rigidity and tenderness mentioned in Tuan Zhuan 彖傳 (the commentary on the hexagram text) is the course of its formation.

The commentary on hex 63 in this regard: It is auspicious in the beginning, (as) tenderness attains the middle position. It will become disorderly when it finishes (or ceases) at the end, (as) it becomes destitute of the norm.

‘Tenderness attaining the middle position’ alludes to that hex 63 is formed after the middle line of the trigram Kun descends to the trigram Chien and exchanges positions with the middle line of the trigram Chien. Hereafter masculinity and femininity come to meet and mingle with each other; all six lines are in their right places; this is the most stable and perfect state, as everything has settled down; hence auspiciousness at the beginning.
Please see the attached sketch.

As for transition from hex 11 (Tai) to hex 12 (Pi), i.e. it will become disorderly when it finishes (or cease) at the end, it refers to what you have quoted in the first post: 'The one strong line that has moved to the top, thus effecting complete order in details, is followed by the other lines, each moving according to its nature, and thus suddenly there arises again the hexagram P'i, Standstill (12)', other than the abovementioned, which is the movement along the timeline after a hexagram is formed.

I add to these: from the perspective in viewing the structure of hex 63, i.e. the upper trigram Kan, peril and another river, is in the front, although it has crossed a river. Line 1: the tail of a fox is wet, signifying the river is wide and deep (lines 2 to 4 is also Kan), the fox should give up crossing the river, and then there is no calamity. Line 6: the fox ignored the warning, the water of the river deluges its head when it reaches the end of hex 63 but still in the river; the situation is rather stern & cruel, it is totally plunged into a crisis, like a person puffed up with pride bound to fail, or like people becoming stalemate and recklessness in the face of crises after a lengthy period of stability.

Regards
Tuck :bows:

rosada · Jan 9, 2010

THE JUDGEMENT

AFTER COMPLETION. Success in small matters.
Perseverance furthers.
At the beginning good fortune,
At the end disorder.
-Wilhelm

fkegan · Jan 9, 2010

rosada said:
I don't understand this idea that After Completion "is the hexagram of transition from T'ai, PEACE (11) to P'i, STANDSTILL (12)."
Can someone please help me out here and explain what Wilhelm is getting at?
Thanks!
-Rosada

Hi Rosada,

Wilhelm is describing a structural move. Assuming a 6 place Yin-matrix as context for building all hexagrams. If the 3 lines of the lower trigram are all Yang, it forms hexagram 11. If the middle Yang line moves to the upper trigram (leaving an open Yin place behind) it forms hexagram 63. If the other two Yang lines also move up to the upper trigram it would form hex 12.

This is more an artifact of hex 11, 63 and 12 all being composed of 3 Yin lines and 3 Yang lines than any actual 'evolution' of hexagram line structure.

Frank

ravenstar · Jan 10, 2010

rodaki said:
wow ravenstar (good to have you back btw )
I don't know if this is the premise of 63 but you have just described here the past 2 days for me!! (with uncanny accuracy too )

63: 'Wrap it up'???

Aw thank you rodaki! Ohhh what a thrill it must be to 'see' exactly where you're heading!!

"Of all the kinds of joy, non perhaps is so pure as that occasioned by sudden insight." Robert Grudin

Stay with it rodaki, put all your energy into it!

From reading what others have had to say, I think what I wrote should be reversed??

The beginning of Hex 63 seems to be the climax (Andy Warhol once said this apex is a person's 15 minutes of fame, which can go as rapidly as it came). If we bask in the glory too long, lose the momentum or slip up, the water in the cauldron could become cold and stagnant. How will we channel and direct that watery energy if no new inspiration comes through and we are at a standstill.

Is this the culmination of life flourishing to its full potential? Then when we've reached this '15 minutes' its plummets from there. So from life and from death, comes the promise of rebirth, an evolvement of one cycle within another larger cycle. This I think would then take us to Hex 64??

SO, by preparing a new vessel with new beliefs, new attitudes, excercises, etc. we allow the revitalized water to flow again.

"The face of change is a young one - and it comes in many colors. All previous revolutions had, as their goal, the attainment of some new state of equilibrium. What we are seeing in our time is a new order of revolution, whose goal is not a new equilibrium, but social disorder itself. It is the first social recognition that continuous change itself is a form of equilibrium - and that is only in disorder when we find order. These kids are 'surfing' and it is the essence of surfing that one should ride the turbulence without succumbing to it. You cannot have fun surfing on a slow wave - and you cannot surf at all on a frozen one." Don Fabun - The Dynamics of Change

ravenstar

rosada · Jan 10, 2010

I think of "After Completion" as meaning "After Enlightenment" - as in the the story,
- "What do you do before Enlightenment?"
- "Chop wood, carry water."
- " And what do you do After Enlightenment?"
- "Chop wood, carry water."

So I'm fooling around with these ideas..

63.
Judgement

After Completion.........................After Enlightenment.
Success in small matters................You know you want to keep your responsibilities simple.
Perseverance furthers...................So all you'll have to do is just keep things running smoothly.
At the beginning, good fortune,.......'Cause you were born lucky,
At the end disorder......................But Life has a way of going off in unexpected directions.

meng · Jan 11, 2010

I no longer view 63 as always meaning already completed. It may also include: to complete or in the process of completing. I offer all 6 lines of 63 as evidence of a process of completion rather than referring to a past accomplishment.

jesed · Jan 11, 2010

Hi Meng

Ricardo Andree says that 63 is a transitional balance or stop in the path of completing the transformation. The risk is to believe that you have ended it already. If you don't move forward, the goal may elude you.

I have found this idea very useful in several cases with 63.

Best wishes

frank_r · Jan 11, 2010

ravenstar said:
Hi Frank,

Going with the enneagrams 3 and 6....this is what I found

http://pstypes.blogspot.com/2009/04/enneagram-misidentifications-type-three.html

On the blog, the 3 and 6 meanings are directly opposite each other.....

Three
Want the spotlight
Success
Impressive
Composed
Admirably smooth
Confident appearance
Emotionally reserved
Cool
Optimistic

Six Avoid the spotlight
Security
Dependable
Nervous
Endearingly awkward
Visible insecurity
Emotionally intense
Reactive
Pessimistic

ravenstar

Hello Janice,

A interesting site where they put the enneagram numbers against each other.

The 3 is fire, the yin eye in the yang fish, and the 6 is water the yang eye in the yin fish.

Nigel Ricmond is desribing a very interesting diagram in one of his books about water and fire. In the I Ching oracle he is using this diagram.

Here we see the figure 8 and two cirkels. When we follow the 8 then there is only one line that is changing when we go from one trigram to the other. When we also go to water and fire then there are two cirkels. When we visit Li and Kan(fire and water) every time the polarity is changing.

He writes about 63 and 64; When taken in their most inner meaning these hexagrams represent enlightment. Here enlightment is taken to mean transition from identity which is seperate from the life energy(but uses it) to being one with that energy without seperate need. The state of being in the whole but yet aware is not imaginable while in the state of identity, there is too much fear of losing identity which is mistaken for losing our being.

Frank

rodaki · Jan 11, 2010

ravenstar said:
"Of all the kinds of joy, non perhaps is so pure as that occasioned by sudden insight." Robert Grudin

Stay with it rodaki, put all your energy into it!

ravenstar

thank you for the encouragement ravenstar

figuring out the placing of things only means that one has to work to achieve this placement . . 63 may be like a puzzle: you have the image in front of you and then a pile of puzzle pieces, you know how they should look but you still have to do the work . .
also, sometimes in my readings I have understood 63 as the power of the status quo, not really sure about this though . .

. . and talking about how things might veer into chaos after a great achievement, I got this vid link today . . (first few minutes are very much about this . .)

rosada · Jan 12, 2010

The transition from the old to the new time is already accomplished. In principle, everything stands systematized, and it is only in regard to details that success is still to be achieved. In respect to this, however, we must be careful to maintain the right attitude. Everything proceeds as if of its own accord, and this can all too easily tempt us to relax and let things take their course without troubling over details. Such indifference is the root of all evil. Symptoms of decay are bound to be the result. Here we have the role indicating the usual course of history. But this rule is not an inescapable law. He who understands it is in position to avoid its effects by dint of unremitting perseverance and caution.
-Wilhelm

rosada · Jan 12, 2010

I think meng is on to something pointing out that "After Completion" is about recognizing an ongoing process.
Trying to write something but my thoughts keep expanding.

63. Chi Chi / After Completion

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