50. Ting / The Caldron

rosada · Dec 6, 2008

Sparhawk · Dec 6, 2008

meng · Dec 7, 2008

It looks like some junk on a wood burning stove, but each ingredient is an anomaly with a story and/or association. It's my alter altar. The cauldron is my skull, the ingredients are what's in my head.

dobro p · Dec 7, 2008

Whatever else it is, the Ting's about inner transformation, that inner cooking that yields alchemical transformation. It's about making yourself the vessel of that transformation. There's another aspect of 50 that I've never really grasped though, and I think Frank knows about it.

frank_r · Dec 7, 2008

dobro said:
Whatever else it is, the Ting's about inner transformation, that inner cooking that yields alchemical transformation. It's about making yourself the vessel of that transformation. There's another aspect of 50 that I've never really grasped though, and I think Frank knows about it.

Hello Dobro,

Thank you for the trust you put in me, makes my heart feel warm.
I think this is the trust we put in each other that we took with us together from 48.
And we explored further in 49, what has been a wonderfull trip.
As Rosada already wrote" we are a good group".

Now we go to 50. Ting; where we are putting everything together what we learned till now.

Frank

rosada · Dec 7, 2008

The six lines construct the image of Ting, THE CALDRON; at the bottom are the legs, over them the belly, then comes the ears (handles), and at the top carrying rings. At the same time, the image suggests the idea of nourishment. The TING, cast of bronze, was the vessel that held the cooked viands in the temple of the ancestors and at banquets. The head of the family served the food from the TING into the bowls of the guests.
THE WELL (48) likewise jas the secondary meaning of giving nourishment, but rather more in relation to the people. The TING, as a utensil pertaining to a refined civilization, suggests the fostering and nourishing of able men, which redounded to the benefit of the state.
This hexagram and THE WELL are the only two in the Book of Changes that represent concrete, man-made objects. Yet here too the thought has its abstract connotation.
Sun, below, is wood and wind: Li, above is flame. Thus together they stand for flame kindled by wood and wind, which likewise suggests the idea of preparing food.

The rulers of the hexagram are the six in the fifth place and the nine at the top. The idea on which the hexagram Ting is based is that of the nourishing of worthy men. The six in the fifth place honors the venerable man represented by the nine at the top. The image is derived from the way in which the rings and the ears of the TING fit into each other.

THE SEQUENCE

Nothing transforms things so much as the TING.
Hence there follows the hexagram of THE CALDRON.

The transformations wrought by Ting are on the one hand the changes produced in food by cooking, and on the other, in a figurative sense, the revolutionary effects resulting from the joint work of a prince and a sage.

MISCELLANEOUS NOTES
THE CALDRON means taking up the new.

The hexagram is structurally the inverse of the preceding one; in meaning also it presents a transformation. While Ko treats of revolution as such in its negative aspect, Ting shows the correct way of going about social reorganization. The two primary trigrams move in such a way that their action is mutually reinforcing. The nuclear trigrams Ch'ien and Tui, which mean metal, complete the idea of the TING as a sacred ceremonial vessel. These old bronze vessels - as still occasionally found in excavations - have been connected through out all time with the loftiest expressions of Chinese civilization.
-Wilhelm

dobro p · Dec 7, 2008

frank_r said:
Thank you for the trust you put in me, makes my heart feel warm.

Hey Frank, I'm glad you're glad, but there's this faint memory I've got that either you or fkegan said something about 50, about the main meaning of 50 that was other than or beyond my idea of 50, and that it was useful. I'm trying to remember it. Was it you? Or was it Kegan? He'll be here soon, and if I take him off my ignore list, I'll find out lol.

frank_r · Dec 7, 2008

dobro said:
Hey Frank, I'm glad you're glad, but there's this faint memory I've got that either you or fkegan said something about 50, about the main meaning of 50 that was other than or beyond my idea of 50, and that it was useful. I'm trying to remember it. Was it you? Or was it Kegan? He'll be here soon, and if I take him off my ignore list, I'll find out lol.

LOL

Frank

my_key · Dec 7, 2008

sparhawk said:

So Is the guy in the yellow night dress saying " I can't fit the pot in my 1967 VW bus, but I'll take the white elephant , I'll be able to squeeze him into the glove compartment, man. "
Or is the guy in blue saying " Only one careful owner and it comes with it's own free spirit and a lifetimes guarantee"

Mike

rosada · Dec 7, 2008

I'm thinking it's interesting that we dedicated this series to our various deceased parents in hexagram 7 . Now here we are at hexagram 50., the hexagram of The Caldron, the connection with the ancestors, on Hilary's day. Are we channeling a birthday greeting to Hilary?

ravenstar · Dec 7, 2008

sparhawk said:

The first thing I noted with sparkhawks picture is the colors the people are wearing, yellow and purple/violet. These chakra colors complement each other. Violet pertains to spirituality, self-respect and dignity. It leads us to the realm of spirituality, the last gateway we must pass through in order to become united with our true self or inner wisdom. Yellow is one of the primary pigment colors....in other words it can't be produced by mixing any other colors. Yellow is related to the solar plexus and carries positive, magnetic currents which are inspiring and stimulating. It strengthens the nerves, stimulates the intellect and activates the motor nerves in the body, generating energy in the body.

This card also reminded of the fairytale Stone Soup. There are many versions to this story, the one I remember is......of a woman so poor and hungry she had nothing but the clothes on her back and a battered cook pot. She set up her pot in a area popoulated more by the poor.....her arrival first attracted the attention of the women at the well drawing water for their homes. Curious they watched as she set up her cooking pot, kindled a fire and after filling the cooking pot with water dragged a heavy stone out of the woods, brushed it clean and plunked it into her pot.

When the pot was boiling her expectations and optimism of eating a great soup created positive results! One by one, people came by to see her cooking pot, intrigued with this old family recipe. And each of these people added an ingredient to the marvelous soup. Now a wonderful smell arose attracting many more passerbys. The soup had salt, potatoes, meat and vegetables fresh from the farmers gardens.

Finally the soup was served a feast that was served out to each and every person in the crowd. All declared it was the best soup they ever tasted. Asking the old lady for her recipe she only smiled and said, 'you have to start with a special ingredient.....a special magic stone.

ravenstar

bamboo · Dec 8, 2008

I think it is interesting that in the I ching set to music thread, no one ever volunteered a song for 50, if I am not mistaken. I always thought it should be Bibbidi-Bobbidee_Boo from Cinderella.
"put it (all) together and what have you got?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAJr1ixBdIc

"You can do magic, believe it or not" is my theme for hexgram 50. in a way, 50 is about what one is really capable of. there is always something to be cooked up, always a new combination of elements... if one is willing... esp when all the chips are down. somehow humans always find a way to make it work anew, thats kind of like the way things are.cinderella got a carriage, among other things, and that relates to 23.6...which is the situation when all seems lost. it really isnt.

50 is kind of magical and cosmic, the quantum soup. the realm of infinite possibility.

my_key · Dec 8, 2008

bamboo said:
I think it is interesting that in the I ching set to music thread, no one ever volunteered a song for 50, if I am not mistaken. I always thought it should be Bibbidi-Bobbidee_Boo from Cinderella.
"put it (all) together and what have you got?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAJr1ixBdIc

"You can do magic, believe it or not" is my theme for hexgram 50. in a way, 50 is about what one is really capable of. there is always something to be cooked up, always a new combination of elements... if one is willing... esp when all the chips are down. somehow humans always find a way to make it work anew, thats kind of like the way things are.cinderella got a carriage, among other things, and that relates to 23.6...which is the situation when all seems lost. it really isnt.

50 is kind of magical and cosmic, the quantum soup. the realm of infinite possibility.

Hi Bamboo

There is definitely a magical element to 50 you can make anything happen, Stone Soup by Ravenstar and your Cindrella link was great btw - complimented each other very well....are we throwing in the ingredients here?. It's a sort of throw it all in the melting pot, stir it around then step into the magic and see what it really tastes like. Remembering that even if you didn't put any in you can still imagine it tastes of chocolate. And don't let anyone tell you it doesn't taste of chocolate.

"You can do magic, believe it or not"

I'm not so sure about the "or not". I'd see this as being more about the journey to believing in the magic, it is important that you do reach out and believe. Once you "or not" it breaks the link to the magic - creates a disharmony. You'd put way way too much chilli powder in the stew and while you were believing it tasted of chocotate things were fine, but once you say it doesn't taste of chocolate, or "I'm not sure whether it tastes of chocolate or not". Those pesky chilli peppers see the opportunity and in they come with an attack on the taste buds.
Once you find the chocolate taste gods keep talking to them whatever the other distractions may be. But don't shout too loud or make that chocolate taste too rich youmay get a headache or a tummy upset.

Yes I felt a there was a reluctance to post songs for 50 - I had a real reluctance to post anything for any of the hexagrams. Having worked through 49 ............
My contribution on the song front.... a catchy little "soul number" from Limmie and the Family Cooking - You can do magic. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJZh7oKD08A

or perhaps on a more cosmic level Blue Mink - Melting Pot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HHT_V294Co

This song is from my youth and I've not heard it played in years. It's well worth a listen in the troubled times we walk.
Listen and believe.

Take Care

Mike

Sparhawk · Dec 8, 2008

my_key said:
Or is the guy in blue saying " Only one careful owner and it comes with it's own free spirit and a lifetimes guarantee"

Mike

Nah, they are just discussing if the beef stew needs more salt...

my_key · Dec 9, 2008

Hi Luis

sparhawk said:
Nah, they are just discussing if the beef stew needs more salt...

So it's that eternal spiritual conundrum that they are discussing. So the guy in blue must be a chef and not a salesman. Hmmmm..... Maybe that's where I've been going wrong!!! :duh:

Mike

frank_r · Dec 9, 2008

50 Ting - the Caldron. 48 the Well and 50 the Caldron are the only object made by man in the Yi.
Where 48 the Well- our character was the basis of the culture here in 50 there is the possibilty to refine our own character by giving the culture the right accents that it can be a culture for all People.

When we are looking to the trigrams there is wind, heaven, lake and fire.
Wood and fire on the exterieur and metal on the interieur.
When there is enough wood to build up a good fire then we can make Gold out of metal.
When we put enough wood on the fire we can get maybe Gold out of metal.
The gold of immortality in old Taoist traditions

Going up the hexagram there is first Wind - the trigram of searching and feeling with our most sensitive senses our skin.
Heaven, a symbol of unity and creativity.
Lake ,having fun but also a place where we are collecting water. A gathering which will be happy and full of stories and memories.
And fire a place where we can come as friends and warm ourselves.

All together; Searching for unity is collecting happy friends.

Frank

Tohpol · Dec 9, 2008

bamboo said:
I think it is interesting that in the I ching set to music thread, no one ever volunteered a song for 50, if I am not mistaken. I always thought it should be Bibbidi-Bobbidee_Boo from Cinderella.

In other words 50 is the alchemy hex par excellence.

("Put them together and what have you got?"
Bibbidi-Bobbidee-Bamboo.)

Topal

meng · Dec 9, 2008

Allow me to introduce a question to the simmering pot.

Is there a difference within hex 50's meaning if the cauldron was a meth lab, or a black magic brew of some sort? And if so, what difference, and what would you attribute that difference to?

maremaria · Dec 9, 2008

ravenstar said:
This card also reminded of the fairytale Stone Soup.

ravenstar

Nice story Ravenstar. I haven't heard before that Grimm's tale. The stone act as a catalyst for the make of the soul. Sometimes , in a absence of a catalyst, even all the other integrens are there the chemical reaction can't take place.

my_key · Dec 9, 2008

meng said:
Allow me to introduce a question to the simmering pot.

Is there a difference within hex 50's meaning if the cauldron was a meth lab, or a black magic brew of some sort? And if so, what difference, and what would you attribute that difference to?

Hi Meng
The only thing that's stopping me from giving you a complete and unequivocal answer is that I haven't a clue what a you mean by a "meth lab" .

Mike

maremaria · Dec 9, 2008

meng said:
Allow me to introduce a question to the simmering pot.

Is there a difference within hex 50's meaning if the cauldron was a meth lab, or a black magic brew of some sort? And if so, what difference, and what would you attribute that difference to?

Me too have no idea about meth lab, but with this question, do you imply that a transformation can not only lead to something better but also to something worse than the current situation ?

meng · Dec 9, 2008

Mike, sorry. A meth lab is where the drug methamphetamine is illegally cooked, then sold to addicts. Hypothetically, it could just as well be the heroin that is cooked in the heroin addict's spoon, before shooting up.

meng · Dec 9, 2008

maremaria said:
Me too have no idea about meth lab, but with this question, do you imply that a transformation can not only lead to something better but also to something worse than the current situation ?

I'm not implying anything, yet :mischief:

. Just asking a question.

heylise · Dec 9, 2008

Guy wants to set up a meth lab and gets a good cauldron
1. but first has to clean it thoroughly, with rests of soup you will not get a good meth conconction
2. then he cooks his stuff, and affects all his 'friends' and customers, but they are so stoned that they will not harm him
3. his business is prospering, he needs a helper but does not want to pay for one so he makes a girl believe he loves her and she is a great assistant
4. ut oh.. the police, everything overturned and he lands in prison
5. he thinks and thinks, time enough now and no worries about how to get a meal.. so he betters his ways and writes it all down
6. now he is praised as an example for all junks and also all young people for making clear to them what happens when you use your ting for a wrong kind of food

meng · Dec 9, 2008

Here's my answer to the question.

The argument isn't one of good or bad. Nor that bad should be allowed to run amuck; but that good is not enough, since it's tied directly to bad. Nobility (in this sense of the word) isn't concerned with good or bad. Nobility is the inner fiber which runs parallel with life, not against it.

"The noble one corrects the situation to solidify fate."

maremaria · Dec 9, 2008

LiSe, love your story.

meng said:
Here's my answer to the question.

The argument isn't one of good or bad. Nor that bad should be allowed to run amuck; but that good is not enough, since it's tied directly to bad. Nobility (in this sense of the word) isn't concerned with good or bad. Nobility is the inner fiber which runs parallel with life, not against it.

"The noble one corrects the situation to solidify fate."

Lets say that in my inner fiber is a criminal and that tendency is surpress. But one day I begun to transform and it comes out and ultimately I'll become a "good" criminal then what happened to me and what other say that happened to me ?

I would say that something "good" happened. I correct my situation. The others would say that I become "worse".

who is right here ?

my_key · Dec 9, 2008

meng said:
Mike, sorry. A meth lab is where the drug methamphetamine is illegally cooked, then sold to addicts. Hypothetically, it could just as well be the heroin that is cooked in the heroin addict's spoon, before shooting up.

OK Meng you called my bluff!! But I'll take a stab anyway.

Having read the other posts I would pick up on the point of good and bad made by maremaria and add that to my thinking Hex 50 is about the transformational journey towards what you are meant to be. The context within which the transformation takes place is immaterial. Who really knows what is good and what is bad?
If you are going to meet your destiny and be the best that you can be, walk towards it whether it is to be the best mad-axe murderer, the best pizza delivery man, the best meth lab manager(see I'm a quick learner) or the best noble peace prize winner.

Mike

meng · Dec 9, 2008

maremaria said:
LiSe, love your story.

Lets say that in my inner fiber is a criminal and that tendency is surpress. But one day I begun to transform and it comes out and ultimately I'll become a "good" criminal then what happened to me and what other say that happened to me ?

I would say that something "good" happened. I correct my situation. The others would say that I become "worse".

who is right here ?

Ok, good heads up. And you ask a critical question: Are any of us created with fiber which runs opposite to natural law? I am assuming that natural law flows together like a river, aka dao, or perhaps like ribbons of grass. I'm assuming that beyond good and bad there is this natural order and flow, which I've called our inner fiber.

So, I'm proposing that this inner fiber (call it whatever you wish) runs with the river, or ribbon, or universal string, and that it is what makes the difference between 50/cauldron and a glass pipe of crack.

rosada · Dec 10, 2008

Please don't wait for me. I'm not able to get to a computer for a couple of days.
Rosada

meng · Dec 10, 2008

I didn't intend to stall this thread out, but I feel it important to approach something akin to moral ground, here in 50. Anyone who has read my thoughts for a few years knows the resistance I have toward the idea of "morality", or that of distinctly good and bad. Here, in 50, I believe this matter is dealt with as in no other hexagram. Wilhelm wrote:

"It's the same in human life; there's in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing."

This is an idea I've wrestled with for many years. In more recent times it is becoming more clear. My words are clumsy, i.e. "fiber", and maybe another image works for you better than my words. What matters is the idea, that the universe really does have order, and the essence of 50 is aligning our individual life with universal direction and order.

50. Ting / The Caldron

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