Memorizing the I Ching: 31, Hsien / Influence (Wooing)

rosada · Aug 15, 2007

31. Hsien / Influence (Wooing)

-- --
----- above TUI THE JOYOUS, LAKE
-----
-----
-- -- below KEN KEEPING STILL, MOUNTAIN
-- --

The name of the hexagram means "universal," "general," and in a figurative sense "to influence," "to stimulate." The upper trigram is Tui, the joyous; the lower is Ken, Keeping Still. By its persistent, quiet influence, the lower, rigid trigram stimulates the upper, weak trigram, which responds to this stimulation cheerfully and joyously. Ken, the lower trigram, is the youngest son; the upper, Tui, is the youngest daughter. Thus the universal mutual attraction between the sexes is represented. In courtship, the masculine principle must seize the initiative and place itself below the feminine principle.
Just as the first part of book I begins with the hexagrams of heaven and earth, the foundations of all that exists, the second part begins with the hexagrams of courtship and marriage, the foundations of all social relationships.
-Wilhelm

Sparhawk · Aug 15, 2007

rosada · Aug 16, 2007

The nine in the fourth place is in the place of the heart. The heart holds mastery in influence, hence the fourth line is here a ruler of the hexagram. The nine in the fifth place is in the place of the back and therefore means keeping still in the midst of the influence. In the midst of movement, it is able to remain quiet and is therefore ruler of the hexagram to a still greater degree.

The Sequence
After there are heaven and earth, there are the individual things.
After the individual things have come ineo being there are the two sexes.
After there are male and female, there is the relationship between husband and wife.
After the relationship between husband and wife exists, there is the relationship between father and son.
After the relationship between father and son exists, there is the relationship between prince and servitor.
After the relationship between prince and servitor exists, there is the differance between superior and inferior.
After the differance between superior and inferior exists, the rules of propriety and of right can operate.

Miscellaneous Notes
INFLUENCE fulfuills itself quickly.
-Wilhelm

lightofreason · Aug 17, 2007

31 Influence (wooing)
Restrained joining
In a context of self-restraint we utilise intensity.

"HSIEN : come into contact with, influence; reach, join together; put together; put together as parts of a previously seperated whole; come into conjunction, as the celestial bodies; totally, completely; lit: broken pieces of pottery, the halfs of which join to identify partners." ERANOS p362

Trigrams : self-restraint (bottom), intensity (top) : with/from self-restraint comes intensity. [lake over mountain]

The mud from which 31 has emerged (27-ness) is best described by analogy to the under-stated qualities of hexagram 13, associating with others (like-mindedness)

In the traditional sequence hexagram 31 pairs with hexagram 32.
In this pairing both hexagrams focus on issues of commitement, be it the intensity in the wooing of 31 (and so an overall differentiating focus) or the general sense of commitment reflected in 32 (and so an overall integrating focus).
COMMIT:

31 : commit (gradual) - through to someone; 31 wooing comes from a context described by hexagram 13 - loose associations

32 : commit (sudden) - through to something; 32 commiting comes from a context described by hexagram 14 - centered associations, directing

In the binary sequence hexagram 31 pairs with hexagram 33.
This pairing overall reflects a focus on 'enticement', be it through the intense 'wooing' of 31 or the trickary of drawing in the enemy etc reflected in 33.

rosada · Aug 18, 2007

THE JUDGEMENT
Influence. Success.
Perseverance furthers.
To take a maiden to wife brings good fortune.

The weak element is above, the strong below; hence their powers attract each other, so that they unite. This brings about success, for all success depends on the effect of mutual attraction. By keeping still within while experiencing joy without, one can prevent the joy from going to excess and hold it within proper bounds. This is the meaning of the added admonition, "Perseverance furthers," for it is perseverance that makes the differance between seduction and courtship; in the latter the strong man takes a position inferior to that of the weak girl and shows consideration for her. This attraction between affinities is a general law of nature. Heaven and earth attract each other and thus all creatures come into being. Through such attraction the sage influences men's hearts, and thus the world attains peace. From the attractions they exert we can learn the nature of all beings in heaven and on earth.
-Wilhelm

rosada · Aug 19, 2007

Commentary on the Decision

INFLUENCE means stimulation. The weak is above, the strong below. The forces of the two stimulate and respond to each other, so that they unite.
Keeping Still and joyousness. The masculine subordinates itself to the feminine. Hence it is said: "Success. Perseverance furthers. To take a maiden to wife brings good fortune."
Heaven and earth stimulate each other, and all things take shape and come into being. The holy man stimulates the hearts of men, and the world attains peace and rest. If we contemplate the outgoing stimulating influences, we can know the nature of heaven and earth and all things.

Hsien differs from the character KAN, "to stimulate," in that the heart is not a constituent part of it, as it is of the latter. Hence it represents an influence that is unconscious and involuntary, not one that is conscious and willed. It is a matter of objective relationships of a general kind, not those of a subjective, individual character.
The "weak above" is the trigram Tui, the youngest daughter; its attribute is joyousness, its image is the lake. The "strong below" is Ken, the youngest son; its attribute is keeping still, its image is the mountain.
The explanation of the Judgement is based on the organization of the hexagram (the weak element above, the strong below), the attributes, and the symbols (the youngest son, the youngest daughter).

crystal_blue · Aug 19, 2007

GEOMANCY
Lower Sigil: Fortuna Minor, 'Lesser Fortune'
--o--
--o--
o---o
o---o

Middle Sigil: Caput Draconis, 'Tail of the Dragon'
--o--
--o--
--o--
o---o

Upper Sigil: Cauda Draconis, 'Head of the Dragon'
o---o
--o--
--o--
--o--

Fortuna Minor indicates mild change and instability, generally success on a mundane level and the idea of working diligently and effectively; Caput Draconis is generally a tricky situation, perhaps person who twists things or who rebels without a cause; Cauda Draconis is a strong, although not necessarily positive influence, but suggests directness and assertion. Overall, it seem to fit - wooing the dragon; skillfully persuading the dragon to turn around.
-

rosada · Aug 19, 2007

THE IMAGE
A lake on the mountain:
The image of influence,
Thus the superior man encourages people to approach him
By his readiness to receive them.

A mountain with a lake on its summit is stimulated by the moisture from the lake. It has this advantage because its summit does not jut out as a peak but is sunken. The image counsels that the mind should be kept humble and free, so that it may remain receptive to good advice. People soon give up counseling a man who thinks he knows everything better than everyone else.

The mountain lake gives of its moisture to the mountain; the mountain collects clouds, which feed the lake. Thus their forces have a reciprocal influence. The relation of the two images shows how this influence comes about: it is only when a mountain is empty at its summit, that is deepened into a hollow, that a lake can form. Thus the superior man is compared to the mountain, the people to the lake. The relation is formed through the initiative of the mountain, the superior man.

rosada · Aug 21, 2007

THE LINES

The stimulation here shows itself step by step. The individual lines denote the respective parts of the body: the three lower lines are the legs, including toe, calf, and thigh; the three upper lines are the trunk, with the heart, the back of the neck, and the organs of speech.

Six at the beginning means:
The influence shows itself in the big toe.

A movement, before it is actually carried out, shows itself first in the toes. The idea of an influence is already present, but it is not immediately apparent to others. As long as the intention has no visible effect, it is of no importance to the outside world and leads neither to good nor to evil.

Influence in the big toe: the will is directed outward.

This line is related to the nine in the fourth place in the outer trigram. The image of the toe is chosen because it denotes the lowest part of the body. The will is directed outward, though this does not become manifest, because the movement of the toe is invisible from outside.
-Wilhelm

rosada · Aug 22, 2007

Playing around with what Influence might mean...

Why is hexagram 31 considered the beginning of PART II rather than hexagram 33? I mean, I would think 33 would be considered the first hexagram of PART II because there are 64 hexagrams, but no, the PART II counterpart to hex1 is hex 31. Anyway, kinda interesting comparing 31.1 to 1.1:

1. THE CREATIVE works sublime success,
Furthering through perseverance.

31. INFLUENCE. Success.
Perseverance furthers.

To take a maiden to wife brings good fortune.

Is this saying hex.31 is the perfect wife/match to hex.1?

IMAGE for hex. 1,
The superior man makes himself strong and untiring.
Image for hex. 31.
The superior man encourages people to approach him
By his readiness to receive them.

The one seeks, the other attracts?

1.1
Hidden dragon. Do not act.
31.1
The influence shows itself in the big toe.

1.1 How it feels from the inside.
31.1 How it looks from the outside.

Frankelmick · Aug 22, 2007

Rosada,

You asked, "Why is hexagram 31 considered the beginning of PART II rather than hexagram 33?"

Hx 1 looks the same upside-down. So does Hx 2. But Hx 3 and Hx 4 are upside-down versions of each other and can be thought of as one pattern.

There was a thread on here a while ago where Peter called these patterns "invariants".

So Hx 1, 2, 3 & 4 represent 3 invariants.

Extend this and you'll find that part one and part two each contain 18 invariants.

Although the Hexagrams are split 30 in part one and 34 in part two, each part contains 18 different invariants.

Perhaps this is why Hx 31 is the start of part two?

Best wishes,

Mici

Sparhawk · Aug 22, 2007

Regarding the splitting of the hexagrams, here is an interesting article:

An old Yijing mystery solved

rosada · Aug 22, 2007

Ah! Excellent. Thank you.

Any thoughts on why 31.1 leads to 49?
31.1 represents the most inconspicuous of influences, yet it directly connects to Revolution.

Sparhawk · Aug 22, 2007

rosada said:
Ah! Excellent. Thank you.

Any thoughts on why 31.1 leads to 49?
31.1 represents the most inconspicuous of influences, yet it directly connects to Revolution.

The "Butterfly Effect"...

rosada · Aug 22, 2007

Oh very cool. Again thank you.

cesca · Aug 22, 2007

rosada said:
Any thoughts on why 31.1 leads to 49?
31.1 represents the most inconspicuous of influences, yet it directly connects to Revolution.

Two thoughts:

1) The beginning of any relationship is revolutionary; it overthrows the old order, even though the effect may not be visible yet. Like Luis says, the butterfly effect.

2) Sometimes it signifies the end of an old relationship.

Cesca

rosada · Aug 23, 2007

Six in the second place means:
The influence shows itself in the calves of the legs,
Misfortune.
Tarrying brings good fortune.

In movement, the calf of the leg follows the foot; by itself it can neither go forward nor stand still. Since the movement is not self governed, it bodes ill. One should wait quietly until one is impelled to action by real influence. Then one remains uninjured.

Even though misfortune threatens, tarrying brings good fortune. One does not come to harm through devotion.

This line is related to the nine in the fifth place. If it does not move in unison with the six at the beginning, but tarries until stimulated from above by the nine in the fifth place, it does not come to harm. The possibility of tarrying is open to it because its position is central.
-Wilhelm

rosada · Aug 24, 2007

Now looking at line 31.2 and trying to understand why it would link to 28. Preponderance of the Great.
Perhaps because if 31.2 is emphasizing that one ought "tarry" and not follow the influence showing itself in the calves, then hex 28 is backing up this advice with the image, "The superior man, when he stands alone, is unconcerned, and if he has to renounce the world he is undaunted."
Actually I AM feeling a little daunted right now, like I'm standing alone. I wish everyone would post an interpretation to these lines as they come up. It wouldn't even need to be an interpretation you particularly agree with, just make some comments for the sake of creating a memory. I'm ready to receive them!

Frankelmick · Aug 24, 2007

Rosada,

31.2 is a Yin line in a Yin location and it corresponds well with the Yang 5th line in a Yang location.

But change it to Yang and it doesn't feel as appropriate to me. Maybe that's the misfortune?

28.2 seems much more fortunate than 31.2 wouldn't you say?

For me, Hx 28 has the feeling of, "Too many Chiefs and not enough Indians".

Hope this helps in some way.

Best wishes,

Mick

martin · Aug 25, 2007

31 to 28 makes me think of somebody who is flirting in a stressed tense atmosphere.
Not really appropriate and it will probably not have the desired effect.

Btw, Rosada, you may have noticed that I don't do astrology anymore in these memory threads. I often don't have the time for it (and I'm a slow writer, especially in English), or the right 'philosophical' mindset.
Apart from that I think that not many here are interested in links between the Yi and (western) astrology and I'm sure that those who are can easily figure it all out for themselves. They don't need me.

rosada · Aug 25, 2007

Musings on 31...

In an effort to understand where 31. Influence is coming from I went back to 30.6. That final line reads, "It is best to kill the leaders..." Ouch! No wonder 31.1 starts with the Influence being so hidden it is barely felt. Like, "Hey, I'm not the leader, no sirree, no need to kill me. I couldn't Influence a flea..."

So okay, starting from a position of having no influence at all - or at least keeping it very hidden, then we come to 31.2 which appears to be saying "It's fast becoming time to stand up and show who you are, but wait until you can do so gracefully." Real life situation might be where you are a guest in someone's house and the host serves wine and you don't drink. You don't draw attention to your glass, you just leave it untouched.

Seems like with this study of 31. Influence, we're first being shown what Influence is not, that is, with 31.1 we're learning how to conceal our own influence and then with 31.2 how to not be pressured or influenced by others.

rosada · Aug 25, 2007

Hey Martin, I was really enjoying your astrological insights. I hope you'll consider taking up the project again when you feel inspired. And don't forget, you're not just writing for those of us who are active today, August 25, 2007. These postings will be enlightening (Influencing?) seekers from here to eternity!

rosada · Aug 25, 2007

Thanks for your thoughts, Mick. Yes, 28.2 is definitely a happier state than 31.2! Does this tell us it's better to be the Old Poplar than the one being wooed?

martin · Aug 25, 2007

rosada said:
These postings will be enlightening (Influencing?) seekers from here to eternity!

In the year 2525
If man is still alive
If woman can survive
They may find........

A post of long ago
On an ancient site
About hexagram 31
Husband and wife

But ..
In the year 6565
Ain't gonna need no husband, won't need no wife
You'll pick your son, pick your daughter too
From the bottom of a long glass tube

rosada · Aug 26, 2007

Love your poetry Martin. What happen to our posting a lyric for each line? Hmmm..

I woke up this morning thinking about how my son has convinced the company he works for to give away something as a promotion. I was seeing in my musings how this gesture will lead to more business and how it will eventually effect the lives of the people involved, and even the lives of people not directly envolved, etc. So after what has felt to me like a slow start, this focusing on Influence has finally caused my brain to come up with a real life example from my own experience. Anyway, I thought this was kind of a meaningful example of how hex.31.1 works. That is, the influence of the idea was slow to manefest - I didn't see any real life pattern reflecting "The influence shows itself in the big toe." - for several days, but then it became powerfully obvious. Next then, what about 31.2? I'm thinking perhaps this next step is about recognizing how a firmly held belief will eventually manefest and thus this can give a person courage then to NOT respond to the influences which come along that might take one off course..

rosada · Aug 26, 2007

Nine in the third place means:
The influence shows itself in the thighs.
Holds to that which follows it.
To continue is humiliating.

Every mood of the heart influences us to movement. What the heart desires, the thighs run after without a moment's hesitation; they hold to the heart, which they follow. In the life of a man, however, acting on the spur of every caprice is wrong and if continued leads to humiliation. Three considerations suggest themselves here. First, a man should not run precipiately after all the persons whom he would like t influence, but must be able to hold back under certain circumstances. As little should he yield immediately to every whim of those in whose service he stands. Finally, where the moods of his own heart are concerned, he should never ignore the possibility of inhibition, for this is the basis of human freedom.

"The influence shows itself in the thighs." For he cannot keep still.
When the will is directed to things that one's followers hold to, this is very base.

Since the two lower lines are weak by nature, it is not surprising that they let themselves be influenced by others. But this strong line could easily master itself and not yield to every stimulus from below. It makes itself contemptible by conforming to the aims of the two lower lines, its followers.

charly · Aug 29, 2007

rosada said:
...In an effort to understand where 31. Influence is coming from I went back to 30.6. That final line reads, "It is best to kill the leaders..." Ouch! No wonder 31.1 starts with the Influence being so hidden it is barely felt. Like, "Hey, I'm not the leader, no sirree, no need to kill me. I couldn't Influence a flea..."

Rosada:

You touched the sensible point, but don't worry, no reason for scarying, only open your eyes to some alternative views:

The character 咸 xian2, that W/B translates «influence» nowadays means «all / completely / fully / wholly / together / etc.»

Sears says:

Etymology: Remnant Primitive, ax 戌 which has cut off the head 口 which is all you have - all
http://www.chineseetymology.org/Cha...aspx?characterInput=咸&submitButton1=Etymology

Some translations from different schools:
1) Classic: Influence (Wilhelm/Baynes); Reciprocity (Lynn)
2) 50/50: Attraction/sensation (Blofeld); Feelings [involuntary movements as omens] (Waley)
3) Modern: Chopping (Rutt); Cut off (Kunst); Cutting (Kerson Huang)

Some interpretations come from the Ten Wings, not from the ZhouYi, they adds a spefcifier to the character 咸 changing his meaning (from Sears):

感　gan3 (Ten Wings):
to find / to feel / to sense / to perceive / to respond to / to affect, move, or touch / feeling / sensation / emotion / to be grateful.

箴 zhen1:
a probe / a needle / to warn / to admonish.

鍼: a methallic needle, acupuncture.

喊 han3: to shout / to scream / to cry / a loud call or cry / a shout or scream / to call ( a person )

We can choose among a wide spectrum of meanings. But none of them about «marriage» . About 取 qu3, Sears says:

«Etymology: Signific Cluster, to take hold of the ear 耳 with the hand 又 - to take... to take / to receive / to fetch / to obtain / to take hold of / to select / to choose / to summon / to recall / to marry / to take a wife».

In H.31 there are not a wife but a young woman, H.31 is about the feast of catching women!

咸 xian2 ???
亨 heng1 treat.
利 li4 profitable
貞 zhen1 divination
取 qu3 catching (not marrying)
女 nu3 women (not wife)
吉 ji2 lucky

Not about mutilation and death, not about moral behavior but about body movements and sensations, could be body piercing, acupuncture, initiation marks or advice for interpersonal relations (the Lynn's «reciprocity»).

Yours,

Charly

Frankelmick · Aug 30, 2007

Charly,

Thanks for this.

You wrote, "Not about mutilation and death, not about moral behavior but about body movements and sensations, could be body piercing, acupuncture, initiation marks or advice for interpersonal relations (the Lynn's «reciprocity»)."

I think that Hx 31 is very sexual. A mountain inside a lake.

Best wishes,

Mick

rosada · Aug 30, 2007

0 Nine in the fourth place means:
Perseverance brings good fortune.
Remorse disappears.
If a man is agitated in mind,
And his thoughts go hither and thither,
Only those friends
On whom he fixes his conscious thoughts
Will follow.

Here the place the heart is reached. The impulse that springs from the heart is the most important of all. It is of particular concern that this influence be constant and good; then, in spite of the danger arising from the great susceptibility of the human heart, there will be no cause for remorse. When the quiet power of a man's own character is at work, the effects produced are right. All those who are receptive to the vibrations of such a spirit will then be influenced. Influence over others should not express itself as a conscious and willed effort to manipulate them. Through practicing such conscious incitement, one becomes wrought up and is exhausted by the eternal stress and strain. Moreover, the effects produced are then limited to those on whom one's thoughts are consciously fixed.

"Perseverance brings good fortune. Remorse disappears." Because in this way one does not stir up anything injurious.
thoughts going hither and thither in agiation: by this one shows one has as yet no clear light.

rosada · Aug 30, 2007

31.4 sounds to me like it is advising, "Just be who you are. Don't strive to impress or create an effect. Who you are is just fine, and besides, if you did try to create an impression you'd only impress those you were specifically focused on, how exhausting!"

Memorizing the I Ching: 31, Hsien / Influence (Wooing)

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