Hexagram 6.0 Conflict

rosada · Sep 5, 2006

Memorizing the I Ching Hexagram 6

6. Sung / Conflict

CONFLICT. You are sincere
And are being obstructed.
A cautious halt halfway brings good fortune.
Going through to the end brings misfortune.
It furthers one to see the great man.
It does not further one to cross the great water.

rosada · Sep 5, 2006

Was just noticing how the first 6 hexagrams after hex.1 and hex.2 all include the trigram K'AN, the trigram for danger and independant action.
Are these first lessons about making the transitions between the energies? For example, Waiting is very yin, I think, compared to Conflict.
These hexagrams make me think we're being given guidance on how to present our ideas, or introduce ourselves into the world. Just as hex 5 seemed to me to be an elaboration of hex 1 Don't act/ Wait. Hex 6 seems to develope hex 1.2 See the great man.
Bruce, would you feel to repost what you wrote on 5.6 about 6.0 over here? It would be useful as we talk about 6.0.

ewald · Sep 5, 2006

As usual, Wilhelm is translating 孚 with "sincere," while I think "trust" makes more sense. It seems that he has used the character 窒 (meaning block, obstruct, stop, shut, close) twice, while it is there only once. At the end of the first sentence he has it as "obstructed" and in the second sentence as "halt."

My translation of 6.0:

Conflict.
Trust has stopped.
Cautiousness while in the middle of this brings good fortune,
at the end misfortune.
It is beneficial to see a senior person.
A disadvantage for crossing the big river.

bruce_g · Sep 5, 2006

rosada said:
Bruce, would you feel to repost what you wrote on 5.6 about 6.0 over here? It would be useful as we talk about 6.0.

Only if I get a gold star.

bruce_g · Sep 5, 2006

5 to 6: Once the waiting is over and the great water is crossed, you meet another tribe on the other side, who may view you and your ways as a threat. A cautious halt halfway brings good fortune - don't defend your ways too strongly. Going through to the end brings misfortune - you may wind up on their dinner plate or with your scalp hanging from a pole. It furthers one to see the great man: your leader and also the territorial chieftain. Hopefully they can come to peaceful terms.

I think it goes without saying, the most common form of this territorial confrontation occurs in our own head. There’s the “establishment” and then there’s this new hero figure who shows up “to meet” the establishment. Likewise, it can represent the social dynamic of someone who has grown into a young adult, with high ideals, who is finished with formal schooling and goes out into the world for their first time.

Trojina · Sep 5, 2006

I used to think this hex was to an extent about anger but I never have tended to receive it when anger had been a major factor in a situation. When angry about something I more often get 34. The impulse, the feeling, the colour of anger 34, the ram using too much strength.
Weird I see 34 as a red hexagram always ?

I got 6 over and over a few years back when asking about jobs, usually line 4. There was no anger around the issue, just internal and external conflict, but a conflict i couldn't see the root of at all.

Wilhelm says 'despite being sincere you are obstructed'. I take this as saying one has not set out to make conflict or trouble, ones intentions are not harmful, but you just ain't gonna have things your way - get over it. Because of the name of the hexagram I always used to think it was about actual arguments between people. Well I'm sure it can be, but as I mentioned its rarely a hex I've ever received when asking about interpersonal conflicts.

A mundane 6 example - I was debating inwardly recently whether to take a trip to a distant town. I needed to stop halfway for some business anyway so I meant to continue after doing that but had a bad feeling about it. I threw 6,1 and figured stopping halfway was the best option - my appointment being exactly halfway. It was the best decision as there was very bad weather. Sometimes the Yi is sooo literal.

nicky_p · Sep 6, 2006

I think the distinction that ewald makes between trust and sincerity is interesting. And Bruce's comments about establishments.

Recently a catholic couple knocked on my door to talk to me about the catholic faith and invite me to join. I went down to the door to listen to what they had to say as I usually do when people of such inclination visit. Having studied different religions at school I knew the basic premises of what they were trying to impart. But I was feeling angsty. Normally I would have talked a while, I've even been known to invite them in and have a cuppa and a natter but this was different somehow. Because I knew that I was feeling angsty I couldn't trust that I wasn't just spoiling for a fight. That I would invite them in and twist the premises and have a little fun but at who's expence? And why? And that maybe my fighting the 'establishment' they were trying to sell to me would end up in my fighting them as people - which I deffinitely didn't want to do. I did air a few fews - agreeing with some of what they had to say and disagreeing with others but I had to think really hard and watch myself. I like to think I was sincere - just sincere about whether I could trust my sincerity if that makes sense?

rosada · Sep 6, 2006

Uh..34 = anger, Trojan? Great. On another thread someone was asking what 34 indicated for the potential of their relationship if they got married. I advised that if they ever did actually decide to get married I thought 34 meant they'd be able to "persevere". Now you tell us you've found it manefests as anger? Ah yes, Chaos, Panic and Conflict..my work here is done...

Anyway, to enlarge on Bruce's idea about Conflict representing the meeting with another tribe and what I was trying to outline earlier today before I'd had my coffee..

Consider 5. Waiting as being about waking up in the morning, coming out of a sleep state - Heaven where everything makes sence - and from this lovely meadow or field of dreams we gradually come down to Earth, in fact, fall into the pit (and why do we come down to Earth? Because this is where the food is, we come here to eat drink and be of good cheer!). On Earth, instead of what ever we want manefesting the instant we consider it as it does in Dreamland, here at this lower vibration we not only have to Wait for it, we have to co-ordinate our desires with other peoples manefestations, which if not done smoothly can be Conflict. So in 5 we are waking up, encouraged to hold on to our dreams (If you believe in your dream, if you are sincere,etc.), and make our dreams real by "crossing the great water" and moving from sleep to wakefulness. Then I'm seeing 6 as being advice as to how to get onto the wakefulness current, kinda like we're entering a freeway, where all the cars of energy are zipping past us and it doesn't further us to just boldly step on the gas tooting our own horn - the way we can in the dream state - but on this plane it is better we not cross the great river or charge onto the freeway, but rather to pause and look for earthly guidence to show us how it's done.

Thank you, Bruce. I don't know how to do gold stars. Will you settle for a story illustrating resolving Conflict through Waiting?

A man rushed into the doctor's office and shouted, "Doctor! I think I'm shrinking!"
The doctor calmly responded, "Now settle down. You'll just have to be a little patient."

rosada · Sep 6, 2006

What a fitting example, Nicky! By the way, If you don't wish to continue to have these visitors and they wont take a hint, say the same thing you would say to a telephone solicitor, "Please put me on your do not call list." They know this means they will be in hot water with the law if they come by again.

bruce_g · Sep 6, 2006

LOL, Rosada - I thought the doc was going to tell him not to take cold showers.

Nicky,
The Catholic evangelists and your inner resistance is precisely what I was referring to. Thanks for illustrating it so well. The hero figure I mentioned is the independent agent, and of course the establishment represents.. well, any established social group or order, religious, political, economic, etc. These same counter cultural opposites exist within ourselves, and when they don’t naturally resonate together they are discordant.

bruce_g · Sep 6, 2006

6 is another hexagram which is often thought of as negative, but contention is simply a natural energy, designed to defend ownership of ourselves. Of course excess in anything can become counter productive. My journal has 6 expressed thusly:

6 Contend
Leaving the familiar, guided only by force; To arms! The hero’s journey begins.

Of course this is over dramatized, and in examples such as Trojan’s, the dynamics are more subtle. But there seems to always be the something you “should” do and also something other that you want to do. Since the end can’t justify the means to have our own way, it rattles our sensibility.

frank_r · Sep 6, 2006

I just had a conversation on the telephone, my son is ill and I had to phone school. The man one the other side didn't got his name right, he had to ask three times and I felt a litle angre coming on. But he kept being friendly and my irritation was melting.

Then I thought of 6, and especially the inner part, the water part. I thought when the strugle is done out of fear you have a "empty" energy away giving conflict. And when you feel the conflict has to be done because the other one has to be stopped this will be a energy giving conflict. Then the water, especially the inner yang line of the water will feed the outside energy of heaven.

So for me it felt like I have to believe in the sincerity of the man on the other side of the phone but I have to trust myself that I'm handling on my real inner strenght. Not my fear but my power.

Trojina · Sep 6, 2006

Rosada i did not say 34 meant anger always just i noted when i was fired up over something and asked about it 34 showed up more than 6. Usually I feel to say 'whoa too much force happening'. Come to mention it though i woldn't see 34 as either marry or don't marry, but if i had to choose i'd say don't. I think 34 is about how to use alot of vigour or energy or power at your disposal. Anger can be energising if you are trying to change something, hence too much anger, too much force...but we are on 6 so I digress....I don't know what you mean about chaos , panic and your work being done ?

Bruce, the example I gave had nothing to do with hero versus establishment I was only asking if I should continue on after the appointment for a pleasure trip to a further town. Yi saying halt halfway, which is what I had to do anyway seemed apt. Really mundane yes ? I can see how it applies though in the jobs questions where i was getting 6, in which I think it was a question of the 'shoulds' in myself fighting the 'I want tos' if thats what you mean.

hilary · Sep 6, 2006

I posted a blog entry, a while back, about trigrams, sequence, and hexagrams 6, 7 and 8. Thought I would just throw it into the pot.

My experiences of Hexagram 6 generally involve at best having a niggling sense that something isn't right, and at worst a burning and ferocious indignation at the injustice of it all. Looking at the Image of 6, it seems that the indignant dissenter could have a powerfully creative role. Um, hang on, isn't that what Bruce was just saying?

bruce_g · Sep 6, 2006

hilary said:
I posted a blog entry, a while back, about trigrams, sequence, and hexagrams 6, 7 and 8. Thought I would just throw it into the pot.

My experiences of Hexagram 6 generally involve at best having a niggling sense that something isn't right, and at worst a burning and ferocious indignation at the injustice of it all. Looking at the Image of 6, it seems that the indignant dissenter could have a powerfully creative role. Um, hang on, isn't that what Bruce was just saying?

Or, the dissenter (hero) is water (independent, individualistic, argumentative), indignant to the authority/establishment of heaven? But as you've said, the dissenter contends for the power of the figurative authority: No-one speaks on my behalf!

A proverbial white knight version of this dissenter: Martin Luther.

But if I 'stick to my guns' on this p.o.v., though it may gain recognition, it will be stripped away by morning.

rosada · Sep 6, 2006

Hi Trojan,
"Chaos, Panic, Disorder. My work here is done." is a quote from something or other, maybe just an old joke. The point being that instead of being helpful by telling the poster 34 meant his marrage would persevere, I was leading him into difficulties, ie. the anger you had experienced with line 34.

Maybe it's appropriate that we're digressing abit here. 6.1 mentions a little gossip and in the end good fortune. In fact, hexagram 6 mentions good fortune five times! Very encouraging for knowing this hexagram (and the next 6 days) don't have to be difficult.

I realized that yesterday I experienced a bit of Conflict, but we glided through it so smoothly I didn't even notice until looking back. I had intended to read stories to my neighbor boys but didn't arrive until later than agreed upon and they were involved in other activities. I joined their game and we saved the stories for another day. Thus..

You are sincere and are being obstructed.
(I had a vision of reading stories but their intention was to something different.)
A cautious halt half way brings good fortune.
(I brought the books to the house but did not mention them when I saw they were not going to be wanted.)
Going through to the end brings misfortune.
(I could have insisted but that would have been no fun.)
It furthers one to see the great man.
(It was worthwhile to visit the kids and their mother.)
It does not further one to cross the great water.
(It would not have been productive to bring my vision into their scene.)

rosada · Sep 6, 2006

6.
THE IMAGE
Heaven and water go their opposite ways:
The image of CONFLICT.
Thus in all his transactions the superior man
Carefully considers the beginning.

bruce_g · Sep 6, 2006

Just happened upon this; thought it might be fitting here.

A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble.
Mohandas Gandhi

Trojina · Sep 6, 2006

bruce_g said:
Just happened upon this; thought it might be fitting here.

A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble.
Mohandas Gandhi

Absolutely !

nicky_p · Sep 6, 2006

Hi Bruce,

Kinda scary that both Ghandi and Martin Luther were assissnated for their beliefs though?

I guess that's what you have to consider at the beginning before you open your mouth to assert your position?

bruce_g · Sep 6, 2006

nicky_p said:
Hi Bruce,

Kinda scary that both Ghandi and Martin Luther were assissnated for their beliefs though?

I guess that's what you have to consider at the beginning before you open your mouth to assert your position?

Indeed!

"Going through to the end brings misfortune. It’s wise to consider the beginning."

But, if one has conviction as strong as Martin Luther or Gandhi, what is a life, if not to give for the sake of your convictions?

bruce_g · Sep 6, 2006

We can add Socrates and Jesus, and probably countless others who sacrificed their lives for the sake of their convictions and ideals. The question which befalls us in our every day life is, is it worth it? And, are we certain our cause is as great as it seems and feels in the moment of contention? The morning after is usually more sober.

frank_r · Sep 6, 2006

bruce_g said:
But, if one has conviction as strong as Martin Luther or Gandhi, what is a life, if not to give for the sake of your convictions?

"The best warrior always takes a step back, go only into conflict when there is no other alternative"

A translation from the Sun-tzu( art of War) and the Sun Pin.

bruce_g · Sep 6, 2006

Thanks, Frank. There it is.

heylise · Sep 7, 2006

Great thread! Made me change the text for my hexagram 6
http://www.anton-heyboer.org/i_ching/hex_1-16/hex_e_06.htm

LiSe

rosada · Sep 7, 2006

hex 6.1

6.1
If no one perpetuates the affair
There is a little gossip.
In the end, good fortune comes.

rosada · Sep 7, 2006

I have been rereading all the first lines we've covered. Over and over the instruction is that one should not barge into a situation, but rather one should first pause, and then one will recognize a way to move forward without blame. But that "Progress without blame" line doesn't come until hex.10, so today we're still back here being reminded the way to get over the threshold is to keep it quiet.

Hmm...just realized that 6.1 changes to 10. I see 10 as being one of the really powerful hexagrams (yes, yes, they all are. But this one is sooo special.) Like The Tiger is the spirit of the IC and he can just slap a fool to Christmas with one swat of his tail. The fact that 6.1 leads directly to this place emphasizes to me how essential it is to receiving the guidance of the I Ching that we be in a certain state of calm. If we are, we get clear answers that fortify our thinking (image 10: fortifies the thinking of the people). But if we're goofing off, perpetuating conflict, then we get sent to the tiger...

rosada · Sep 8, 2006

hex 6.2

6.2
One cannot engage in conflict.
One returns home, gives way,
The people of his town,
Three hundred households,
Remain free of guilt.

Trojina · Sep 8, 2006

Most clearly recall receiving this after living in a small town a year or two and asking if I would have to/should move back to the city I had lived in before. Yes i did 'have to' return to the city which had been my home before, though I did not really want to. There was a house in the city i could go to,and no house in the town and time was pressured.

Still I'd like more clarification on this line. I never understood the '300 households' bit ?

What do you think Rosada ?

rosada · Sep 8, 2006

I really love the second half of Wilhelm where he gets into why the different lines mean what they do. For 6.2 he says,

"'One cannot engage in conflict: one returns home, gives way.' thus one escapes. To contend from a lowly place with someone above brings self-incurred suffering."

( I see this in light of the current controversies as my deciding not to continue debating on the other thread. I posted my summation and returned "home", to this thread.)

"One cannot engage in conflict, although in this hard line in the middle trigram K'an, the Abysmal, intention to contend with the nine in the fifth place is inherently present. This second line, being a nine, moves; that is, it changes into a yin line. Thereby it conceals itself, and with the two other yin lines it forms the town of three hundred families, who remain free of all entanglement."

In the frist half, Wilhelm comments about this line, "In a struggle with an enemy of superior strength, retreat is no disgrace. Timely withdrawal prevents bad consequences. If, out of a false sence of honor, a man allowed himself to be tempted into an unequal conflict, he would be drawing down disaster upon himself. In such a case a wise and conciliatory attitude benefits the whole community, which will then not be drawn ito the conflict."

In your situation, perhaps the I Ching was saying, "pick your battles - just "escape", go back to the city and let the small town dream go. Don't return to the city and tell everyone how frustrating the small town experience was, don't draw anyone else into it." IMHO. Thanks for asking!

P.S. 6.2 leads to 12, Standstill. Would you say your small town experience was at a Standstill or how does that hex figure in?

Hexagram 6.0 Conflict

Supporter

Supporter

visitor

bruce_g

Guest

bruce_g

Guest

Supporter

visitor

Supporter

Supporter

bruce_g

Guest

bruce_g

Guest

visitor

Supporter

Administrator

bruce_g

Guest

Supporter

Supporter

bruce_g

Guest

Supporter

visitor

bruce_g

Guest

bruce_g

Guest

visitor

bruce_g

Guest

Supporter

Supporter

Supporter

Supporter

Supporter

Supporter