Memorizing the I Ching Hexagram 5

rosada · Aug 28, 2006

5. Hsu / Waiting (Nourishment)

THE JUDGEMENT

WAITING. If you are sincere,
You have light and success.
Perseverance brings good fortune.
It furthers one to cross the great water.

ewald · Aug 28, 2006

Why does it "further one to cross the great water?" I'd say that while you are waiting you can't really undertake any big things.

philippa · Aug 28, 2006

ewald said:
Why does it "further one to cross the great water?" I'd say that while you are waiting you can't really undertake any big things.

Hmm. Here's my blind stab at it: It's favorable to cross the great water if the course of action is clear, then it all comes down to waiting. Waiting for the right moment, right resources, et cetera. Once all the factors are in sync, you can embark on the great journey.

Hmm. But I can also see the other way around -- as per the Chinese saying, once all the factors are in sync, the "right path" becomes crystal clear. You know where to go, and have the resources, as a result of waiting, so obviously, it "furthers one to cross the great water."

Hmm.

bruce_g · Aug 28, 2006

Hmm

Some say, waiting for the rain to stop. Some say, waiting for the rain to come. Since water is above heaven and not below, I lean toward waiting for the rain to start.

It seems to me that one waits to become water, waits to gather enough understanding (water is the teacher) to flow, and for that is needed rain (nourishment), which we must wait for. That's why I chose for my use: Content to play, gathering in pools, soon to be a river.

mudpie · Aug 29, 2006

I have seen the word "patience" for this hex. and I lean towrds waiting for the rain to stop. the river can be dangerous if the waters are flooding or if its pouring rain. If you move too soon, you could be in big trouble.
I like the idea of waiting to become water, however, But maybe it would be sort of like waiting to become one WITH the water....meaning waiting for the right moment to move, when all will flow. 5 is about timing and anticipation.

There is a worthy goal in sight....be patient, and plan your moves wisely.

rosada · Aug 29, 2006

Definitely feel "Patience" is the key clue here!
I get a visual of paratroopers in the open door of a helicopter watching for a clear shot to jump into the conflict below. So both waiting for the rain to clear and waiting to become "rain".

Thinking hex. 5 is expanding on some earlier thoughts. Thinking about the line, "If you are sincere, you have light and success" and hex1.1 and 1.2... Seems to be reminding us that if we are sincere but are patient and don't act (hex.1.1) our sincerity will attracked or cause us to see the dragon, the opportunity we should align with (1.2).

Interesting how the judgements of all five of the first hexagrams mention perseverance, although here rather than being told "perseverance furthers" we are given the added encouragement that "perseverance brings good fortune." Sounds like we're being told that all the persevering is on the verge of some real breakthrough.

What is the Waiting for? I think it's for clarity, a deeper understanding than is possible at first viewing. An example might be where one falls in love at first sight but then later realizes the moon was full, the wine was sweet etc. or that the love one reminds of an old love, or some pattern that we should be aware of before jumping in.

ewald · Aug 29, 2006

listener said:
I have seen the word "patience" for this hex. [...]
There is a worthy goal in sight....be patient, and plan your moves wisely.

As usuall, Wilhelm translates 孚 with "sincere" here, probably following the Confucian reinterpretation. I think it means trust, confidence, however, it makes much more sense in most contexts. Sincerity can be the result of that, but doesn't necessarily imply trust or confidence.

Waiting.
Have confidence in the sunlight.
Progressing.
Persistence brings good fortune.
It is beneficial to cross the big river.

This "having confidence in the sunlight," is being patient while there is sunlight. Patience is a kind of confidence or trust. The availability of sunlight denotes the time that it makes sense to wait (so until the end of the day, or perhaps until rain clouds obscure the sun).

frank_r · Aug 29, 2006

Where 3 and 4 were about the infant and the youth 5 is about an adult. Who is old enough to know when to act, knowing when to cross the big river.

Wu Jing-Nuan speaks of the mature person who's able to perform the rites of rain making and rain stopping. So both stopping and making. Somebody who knows the secrets of the flowing of water. Knowing when to go with the flow.

rosada · Aug 29, 2006

Interesting! One might say that the differance between the youth and the adult is the ability to wait!

hilary · Aug 29, 2006

Ewald asks a really good question. If you're waiting, how can it be good to cross rivers, ie take decisive action? My suggestion: crossing a river is a way of putting yourself in the best place to receive what you're waiting for. You're showing willing - committing yourself to expect, wait and prepare for. (There's more to this one than just waiting hopefully, as if for a bus.)

'Have confidence in the sunlight' is a really interesting translation.

nicky_p · Aug 29, 2006

I don't know about everyone else but I'm absolutley rubbish at waiting! :blush:

I've had this feeling that hex 5 is always telling me to shift the perspective - if you concentrate on crossing the river you're not focused on whatever it is that you're waiting for. I don't know why but it's never felt like the crossing of the river was the goal but the distraction. Along the lines of 'a watched pot never boils'?

I guess that does mean it envolves an element of trust - that when you come back to the issue things will have moved further along either in yourself or the situation to produce the results desired?

rosada · Aug 29, 2006

Interesting how the first 5 hexagrams all include encouragement to "persevere" and hex 5 particularly says perseverance doesn't just further, it "brings good fortune", as if the goal is now actually in sight (insight?) so just be patient a little while longer.

Yes, I too thought it was pretty nifty that ewald launched this discusion with a question. I mean, we'd just had a lecture in hex.4 about the importance of coming up with a good question. I wonder if "It furthers one to cross the great water" is encouragement to seek more knowledge, ask more questions as a means of gaining greater light/clarity before taking action?

I'm going to hold off on posting the IMAGE for a couple of hours just in case more folks want to comment on the judgement (...waiting....).

rosada · Aug 29, 2006

5. Waiting IMAGE

THE IMAGE

Clouds rise up to heaven:
The image of WAITING.
Thus the superior man eats and drinks,
Is joyous and of good cheer.

bruce_g · Aug 29, 2006

hilary said:
(There's more to this one than just waiting hopefully, as if for a bus.)

But, you don't wait for a bus in the middle of a forest; you (hopefully) wait at a bus stop. There is expectation of a bus arriving, on schedule? :mischief:

bruce_g · Aug 29, 2006

Maybe I missed your point, Hilary. How is 5 more than waiting for a bus?

heylise · Aug 29, 2006

A very important meaning of 5 is waiting for something because you need it. Most people think it means just, "don't do anything now, but wait", but it has more to do with 'how' you wait when there is something you really need. Or maybe only think you need.
And also what is happening when you are in need.
Yi can answer "5" when someone wants something, to let him/her know, that he is 'needy', and should do something about that neediness, rather than figuring out how to get what he wants, or to wait for it to come.

LiSe

bruce_g · Aug 29, 2006

heylise said:
Yi can answer "5" when someone wants something, to let him/her know, that he is 'needy', and should do something about that neediness, rather than figuring out how to get what he wants, or to wait for it to come.
LiSe

Interesting observation. It's like having a calming and somehow unifying effect. This happens sometimes while I wait in line at the pharmacy. The line is typically long and slow moving, and people are unnerved. I'll often start up light conversations and share a little laughter. It makes waiting not feel like waiting, but living.

rosada · Aug 29, 2006

So "The superior man eats and drinks, is joyous and of good cheer" is telling us how to turn Waiting into living. I like that. I must say I have found Waiting with no change lines NOT to be a positive omen. I received it once for a friend who was being sued. She asked how the ruling would go and received hex. 5. The case dragged on for a year. Ultimately she lost because her insurance company decided just to pay the bogus claim rather than risk a court battle.. I see hexagram 5 as saying, "Whatever is going to happen is going to happen so better not to worry about the future, enjoy your life today." I do think she took the reading to heart however, and did not stress over the impending decision and therefore was able to recover from the bad news fairly quickly because she didn't feel she'd lost a year of her life stressing over the case.

hilary · Aug 30, 2006

I spent many happy hours waiting for buses when I was at school. (On occasion several consecutive hours waiting for just one of them.) You wait. You pass the time reading the sensational fiction they thoughtfully pasted onto the bus stop for you to read (it's called a timetable). You don't do anything. Eventually the bus comes, or it doesn't.

With Hexagram 5, there's some connection between the spirit of your waiting (and expecting and preparing) and what comes. The shaman dances for the rain, or the sage in his hut aligns himself with the dao.

bruce_g · Aug 30, 2006

hilary said:
I spent many happy hours waiting for buses when I was at school. (On occasion several consecutive hours waiting for just one of them.) You wait. You pass the time reading the sensational fiction they thoughtfully pasted onto the bus stop for you to read (it's called a timetable). You don't do anything. Eventually the bus comes, or it doesn't.

With Hexagram 5, there's some connection between the spirit of your waiting (and expecting and preparing) and what comes. The shaman dances for the rain, or the sage in his hut aligns himself with the dao.

I think understand now what you mean. You’re saying that the shaman “makes” something come, or prepares a way for something to come, or creatively participates in its coming? Yes, I can see that. He usually becomes what he’s waiting for: the rain falling, the hunted deer or fish, the meeting she conducts later this evening, the big concert performance this coming weekend. Visualization, acting out the drama in the manner you choose. Yes, I could see how this is eating, drinking and being of good cheer.

Thanks

rosada · Aug 30, 2006

Hexagram 5.1

5.1
Waiting in the meadow.
It furthers one to abide in what endures.
No blame.

rosada · Aug 30, 2006

If life is a journey, than the I Ching is a travel guide. I'm interpreting each hexagram as telling us something we need to know about how the road will unfold and what we'll need to know each step of the way. And thank you Hilary for that quote over on hex.4 explaining WHY we are given information in small bites only!

Now we are here at...

5.1
"Waiting in the meadow."
I'm interpreting this to mean we are now at a plateau where we can pause ..

"It furthers one to abide in what endures."
..and review what we feel we understand...

"No blame."
...and feel free to ask questions about what we do not.

rosada · Aug 30, 2006

So far I'm seeing a pattern emphasizing taking things one day at a time, and the importance of knowing how to find and align constructively with others to create this group reality. With this thought im mind I see hex 1 as day and hex 2 as night and some new ideas about hex 1 and hex 2:

1 This Perfect Day.
Keep on keeping on.
1.1 Wake up, pause, remember, get clear about goals for the day.
1.2 Align with energy already flowing in the direction you wish to go in.
1.3 Complete morning chores, don't spread self too thin.
1.4 Postion self.
1.5 Seize the day! Live the life you dreamed!
1.6 Clarity waning. Decisions made now may be regretted.

2 Sweet Dreams.
Let It Be.
2.1 Getting tired, soon time for bed.
2.2 Nothing more can be done today. Enjoy your creation.
2.3 Complete bedtime chores.
2.4 Into the old sleeping bag.
2.5 Meet St. Peter.
2.6 I don't want to think about tomorrow yet! Press the snooze alarm! Oh, how I hate to wake up in the morning!

ewald · Aug 30, 2006

We didn't do 1.7 and 2.7 actually. All lines changing?

autumn · Aug 30, 2006

Rosada, maybe you could begin another thread on that, and address not just that, but how the line change patterns affect the reading in general? I'd love to see that as a complement to the hexagram threads. Only twice have I ever received all six lines changing, and neither time was in the special case of 1 and 2, but I have always wondered what other people think about the significance of, say, all lines changing, no lines changing, on the top lines of the trigram changing, etc. etc.,

By the way, thank you, so much, for these wonderful threads, Rosada.

rosada · Aug 30, 2006

Ewald, you're right. I searched back through the original postings here on hex. 1 and 2 and while we did mention 1.7 and 2.7 exist we didn't elaborate on them or weave them into the story. Trying to see what they might have to say in my above example..

Hex 1 DAY
1.7 A clear goal and steady follow through gets you through the day without error.

Hex 2 NIGHT
2.7 Put aside cares and get a good night's sleep and you'll be ready for whatever tomorrow brings.

rosada · Aug 30, 2006

Thank you Autumn! I've made a point now of separating my personal posts from the I Ching daily line so folks will recognize that what I think is worth mentioning isn't anything more than my own discovery. So please feel free to mention whatever you think is worth noting about each line! Your suggestion that we consider what the change lines lead to is something I'm interested in too. Like 5.1 leads to 48. Why? What is that all about? Hmmm.."48. The superior man encourages the people at their work, and exhorts them to help one another" So right here at 5.1 we're not just pausing to review our progress, but to encourage each other too? Well, hey then, all the more thank you for your encouraging words and I thank everybody who has taken the time to read these threads and especially those who have posted their own insights. I am learning - and memorizing - something new every day!

rosada · Aug 30, 2006

hex 3 review..
Maybe Difficulty at the Beginning should be retitled Day Two, cause it seems like everything was so simple and clear with Day One hex 1, and now it's like we're going through the process again and things that seemed so obvious the first time, now don't seem quite so clear. Like we're aware that we don't just sleep at night, some times we zone out during the day, and vice versa. So now we're looking at situations and trying to separate and synthesize both the concious and the unconcious impulses:

Hex 1.1 says pause, read the signs before advancing, look for the positive chi.
2.1 says somethings are not gaining chi, but losing it.
3.1 says "Well is the chi strong or weak? Should I stay or go forward? Who the heck knows? How can I tell?" Interesting in 3.1 it's a strong yang line, but unlike hex 1, where the begining strong yang line goes on to another yang line, the yang line in 3.1 is moving to a yin line. Is this symbolic of the feeling of, "uh-ho, where is it safe to go from here?"

Then 1.2 was about connecting with a dragon,
2.2 says no point in connecting with anybody, so
3.2 is like, "Well, I don't think I'll connect now, come back in 10 years."

Hex 1.3 "Get ready for the day!
2.3 "Get ready for bed!"
3.3 "I am so confused, I don't know where I'm going or what I should be doing."

Hex 1.4 You have free will, you can do what ever you choose.
2.4 You have no will at all, you might as well be in a tied up sack.
3.4 Well, I know what I'd like to do, but I have no means of doing it, "HELP!"

Hex 1.5 My whole life is ahead of me. Seize the day!
2.5 Your whole life is behind you. (If that person in the yellow robe really is St. Peter at the gate.)
3.5 Am I awake or an I dreaming? What's real? Who can I trust?

Hex 1.6 Not sure what I'm doing, but let's just keep moving forward!
2.6 Stop, I have to figure things out! You're just jumping to conclusions!
3.6 No I'm not! Yes you are! Am not! Are too!

rosada · Aug 31, 2006

Hmmm...I've been fiddling with my above post, still not really clear what hex3 is saying and why Difficulty at the Beginning should lead to Youthful Folly...

jesed · Aug 31, 2006

The plant first need to born, and then to be cultivated.

Memorizing the I Ching Hexagram 5

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