Your Experiences with Unchanging Hexagrams - Hexagram 33

Trojina · Jan 15, 2014

I can't recall any occasion where I've received 33uc and not understood. It's quite simple isn't it ?

It's quite emphatic and unequivocal.

Get Out.

Get Away

You are doing this to stay whole.

For me I think it's been a confirmation of what I already felt.

As I'm thinking especially in pairs with the unchanging castings

Lise said of this pair

Standing in the world

33 - Do not let them eat you
34 -Use your power to stand, not to exert it.

Hilary says of the pair

Retreat forms a pair with Hexagram 34, Great Vigour :

'Great vigour means stopping, Retreat means withdrawing'

Sometimes you can take a stand and hold your position; sometimes you need to move away

In my own experience of 33uc it hasn't generally been enough to retreat by letting whatever threatens slide or dissipate of itself. The thing that threatens appears to advance on one and one needs to turn tail. I recall having extricated myself from a rather unhealthy friendship running into that person, years later, in the street and stopping to chat etc. I had the idea that time, distance, and all the changes we would have been through in that time would make it possible to have a fairly amiable but loose connection. So I was imagining I could 'stand', hold my own, 'handle' the relationship on different, much more casual terms. That might have been hexagram 34. However what happened was not like that at all. The person wished to pick up in the same way we had all those years ago, wishing to just carry on as before, which had been quite detrimental to me. I didn't feel comfortable with how things were going, consulted Yi and got 33uc. I had to be quite clear to myself that I was withdrawing from this.

For unchanging answers the Image often seems to get to the nub of it

From Hilary's book

'Below heaven is the mountain, Retreat.
A noble one keeps small people at a distance,
Not with hatred, but through respect'.

The mountain stands firm and still, and seems to be joined more with heaven than with earth. The noble one who retreats up the mountain shares this character - staying close to what inspires, he is naturally distanced from what would diminish him. This happens through respect and without hostility, because to hate something is to take the ugliness you perceive into your heart.

I've also had 33 sometimes when asking re other's stance to me when I've been unable to get near them and they are acting with reserve to me. So I've also seen 33uc as what someone is doing to me as the small person they are retreating from (huh).

What does Wing say of 33uc

"The upper trigram, CH'IEN, firmness, moves up and away from the inflexible, immovable KEN, in the lower position. RETREAT in it's static from suggests that the object of your enquiry is inflexible, untenable and formidable. You must calmly and unemotionally remove yourself from the situation"

I don't think the object of your enquiry need be terribly formidable but it is something that just isn't good for you, that diminishes or hurts you in some way.

Anyone recall any other 33uc experiences ?

Trojina · Jan 15, 2014

Oh of course it's not always terribly clear what one is retreating from when receiving 33uc. Sometimes it takes more thinking about.

As this thread addresses somewhat

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?11198-33-Unchanging

anemos · Jan 15, 2014

sometimes 33 comes when I am in a :brickwall:

or

mode.
My painting teacher told me how to deal when something feels wrong in a painting and I can't see it. Leave it for a moment, focus on something else and after a while return to see it. Voila!!! It always work, so it feels like cool down a bit.

rosada · Jan 15, 2014

I had a guest for dinner who turned out to be rude and intrusive. I felt myself withdrawing into myself and giving only the most minimal answers to questions and finally I turned on my computer and completely tuned out of the conversation. When he finally got up to leave I waved from the couch and didn't even get up to walk him to the door.
After he left I asked the IChing what that was all about. I got 33.Retreat, no change lines.

Trojina · Jan 15, 2014

Great example

but this tickled me

When he finally got up to leave I waved from the couch and didn't even get up to walk him to the door.

that's a great tip for unwelcome guests....just wave from the couch

pure 33....oh that has tickled me

:rofl:

Liselle · Jan 16, 2014

trojan said:
As this thread addresses somewhat

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/frien...-33-Unchanging

anemos said:
[...] Leave it for a moment, focus on something else and after a while return to see it. [...]

Yes, I've gotten 33uc in the "strategic, withdraw to fight another day" sense...often when Yi's trying to tell me that if I would only go away for now, I will understand the reading LATER. :brickwall:

Liselle · Jan 16, 2014

rosada said:
After he left I asked the IChing what that was all about. I got 33.Retreat, no change lines.

Did you ever see him again? Am wondering if Yi was both confirming that you did the right thing by retreating to the couch, AND saying that he'd gotten the message and wouldn't come back.

Liselle · Jan 16, 2014

Have also gotten 33uc in very simple, concrete ways:

Q: How appropriate to reply to so-and-so's email to ask them such-and-such?
A: No, don't.

Q: (please forgive icky example) Why is my ear still like this, after appt. to have wax removed?
A: The Dr. didn't get all the wax "withdrawn." (Proven by repeat appointment.)

33uc has also referred to "withdrawing" money from a bank account. I can't tell from the question and my complete lack of notes

whether the advice was DO withdraw money, or DON'T withdraw money, but since I didn't ask any follow-up questions I apparently found it to be a straightforward answer.

rosada · Jan 16, 2014

Hi Lisa,

He called me the next day and said he'd enjoyed our evening. I took over the conversation and said in a very firm but kind way that I'd had a very nice evening too but that I didn't care to continue our friendship. I then said, "Thank you so much for calling, that was very nice of you." And then I hung up before he could say anything. I was really surprised at how well that bit went as I had been dreading he might call since I have a hard time telling people no. I think this illustrates 33.6 "Cheerful retreat" and Wilhelm's comment, "Inner detachment has become an established fact, and we are at liberty to depart." It was a good lesson for me in showing that if I really do detach on the inside it's not hard to detach on the outside.

Hmmm..on reflection about line 33.6 and how it changes to 31. Influence (Wooing) it seems to me that this is a good example of the second hexagram showing the context rather than the outcome of the first hex. Thus, the Retreat was in the context of a Wooing situation (yuk, don't even like to think of it as that), and not that the Retreat led to a Wooing situation.

Hmmm again...actually maybe the Retreat did lead to Wooing - it was a week after all that happened that I met my new friend who is now my steady partner. After the above experience with Bachelor #1 I was so freaked by the whole dating game idea that I literally told God He had to either send me Mr. Right right now or I was going to Retreat from the planet. Fortunately He granted my wish.

Liselle · Jan 16, 2014

Rosada,

That is hilarious, a very good example, and I'm really happy it all worked out so well! How you handled Bachelor #1 - I am giggling.

I wonder if maybe the primary and relating hexagrams just sort of meld together sometimes? Like they say about astrological conjunctions?

Trojina · Jan 16, 2014

He called me the next day and said he'd enjoyed our evening. I took over the conversation and said in a very firm but kind way that I'd had a very nice evening too but that I didn't care to continue our friendship. I then said, "Thank you so much for calling, that was very nice of you." And then I hung up before he could say anything. I was really surprised at how well that bit went as I had been dreading he might call since I have a hard time telling people no. I think this illustrates 33.6 "Cheerful retreat" and Wilhelm's comment, "Inner detachment has become an established fact, and we are at liberty to depart." It was a good lesson for me in showing that if I really do detach on the inside it's not hard to detach on the outside.

but you didn't get 33.6, you got 33 unchanging didn't you ?

Trojina · Jan 16, 2014

I wonder if maybe the primary and relating hexagrams just sort of meld together sometimes? Like they say about astrological conjunctions?

http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2013/06/01/the-old-resulting-hexagram-conundrum/

I'm always posting this link and wish it was a sticky. As far as I am concerned they are always melded together.....they interact, and that interaction, with the lines like rivers flowing between them...or lights or whatever is your reading...except of course when there's no lines/rivers/lights we have the unchanging hexagram doing it's own thing.

rosada · Jan 16, 2014

Yes, I did get 33, not 33.6. I have found however that sometimes when you get an unchanging hexagram for the answer it's meaningful to read all the change lines - it's as if the IC is an instructor telling you, "To learn about Retreat read Chapter 33." In my above experience while I could have just accepted that it was an example of "keeping a man at a distance, not angrily but with reserve," by studying each of the lines and seeing if and how they related to the situation I got a deeper awareness of the steps involve in creating a successful retreat.

anemos · Jan 16, 2014

rosada said:
He called me the next day and said he'd enjoyed our evening.

kinky guy !!!

Liselle · Jan 16, 2014

rosada said:
Yes, I did get 33, not 33.6. I have found however that sometimes when you get an unchanging hexagram for the answer it's meaningful to read all the change lines...

I'm torn between the "read chapter 33!" idea, and worrying that it would just confuse things. If Yi wanted all six lines read, wouldn't it just make all six lines be actually moving? (Which it almost never does, as far as I can tell, and now I'm wondering why, haha.)

anemos · Jan 16, 2014

I think what rosada means, and its something i do occasionally is read all the lines to "get into" the energy field of the specific hex. For instance this situation could be h52 too , as rosada retreats but looking at both hex's lines there is a different context/ advise

rosada · Jan 16, 2014

Well in this example of 33 I didn't look at the lines until just now when lisa asked if I'd ever heard from him again as she was curious if 33 unchanged meant the Retreat was final with no change. Since I did hear from him the next day I checked the lines now to see if they provided any insight as to why that was. The insight I got was that the Retreat was final when I reached that last step in the 1-6 cycle - Cheerful retreat. When he left the night before I was not at peace because I was afraid he would call again so I hadn't completely experienced all the steps of Retreat. So I guess there's a lesson in 33 that it's not really over until you can leave in good spirits.

So anyway, I agree reading all the 6 lines can be very confusing and probably not even necessary unless you want to get into the vibe deeply as anemos says. I do find it very beneficial though to have read at one time or another the whole hexagram - for years I consulted the I Ching by just reading the specific change lines. Now of course I realize you need to read the whole hexagram and get the whole story.

veavea · May 31, 2016

Today I asked the Yi: Who are you? And received 51uc.

Then I asked: what is the best way for me to learn from you? and received 33uc...

Olga Super Star · Jul 27, 2016

I've always experienced 33 unchanging as "get away from there".
And it has always applied.

But twice I got it in a different way.

Who is XX? (XX being a very good friend of mine whom I considered my i ching mentor): 33
I took the answer as meaning "he has sort of an avoidant personality"

What can I improve about myself? 33
That wasn't clear until I got here and read "Do not let them eat you"

LiSe Heyboer says about 33, "there are things that sustain your life. Don't let them escape, they are valuable"

So I guess the whole reply could mean "Don't let people eat you and at the same time chase what you need"

Olga Super Star · Jul 20, 2017

Years ago I did a self-esteem rising and creation-boosting course book, with lessons, homework and everything. I enjoyed it a lot.
Today a friend of mine calls and says she has finally bought it and has started to do it.
I felt I wanted to do it again.

What can doing the book again give me? 33
I would read it as "don't do it now".

But since last year when asking What I could improve about myself? I got 33, and since it couldn't possibly mean that there was nothing to improve, 33 might be having another meaning.
I shall keep you informed

Olga Super Star · Jul 20, 2017

I couldn't resist, so I asked How to approach the book: 4.3>18

Mmh ok, now 33 looks quite different

Yet I wonder why I got so big responses for just an innocent book!
Sometimes Yi you do exaggerate in my opinion

SHONNA_D · Sep 22, 2017

Hexagram 33... I have received it a lot of times..Usually when iching would like to point out that I must retreat from asking (when I ask for the same issue again and again).... and... my interpretation or understanding is not correct so I must retreat.

steve · Feb 17, 2020

Hi

In many instances, it can be to retreat from a certain train of thought. For example, I have received the line when asking about my finances. It's like I am being advised don't worry about that now. You have other things to think about. It is similar to the advice in the thread above by Shonna.

Steve

Liselle · Feb 17, 2020

Hi Steve,

Did you mean line, or hexagram? (If 'line', which one?)

Hashmotor · May 25, 2022

I just got 33 uc to How can I help this person (I love)?
All the comments above make sense somehow in this case.
And I take, in my case, the uc factor to mean I asked How, so "Calmly and unemotionally remove yourself from the situation" as well as "Cool down a bit". I did not ask where I am or how I am doing at this task of helping the other, so I did not get any lines because of the way the question was asked and because 33 Retreat is all I should do to achieve the result of helping that person. Which makes total sense concerning the type of connection I have with that person, too.

Hashmotor · May 9, 2023

SHONNA_D said:
Hexagram 33... I have received it a lot of times..Usually when iching would like to point out that I must retreat from asking (when I ask for the same issue again and again).... and... my interpretation or understanding is not correct so I must retreat.

Interesting. Because it sounds like hex 4 but matches what someone said above, about retreating to help one have a better perspective on their painting. Hex 4 could be you just haven't practiced enough to see how to improve. It also matches, in the context of asking Yi, what someone said above about understanding the answer later.

steve · May 25, 2023

Liselle said:
Hi Steve,

Did you mean line, or hexagram? (If 'line', which one?)

Sorry, for the slow reply, the hexagram as a whole.

dobro p · May 25, 2023

steve said:
Sorry, for the slow reply

Did you draw 33 in connection with answering Liselle's question? ;-)

This kind of thing has happened to me many times - I ask about A and the Yi directs my attention to B. (That's why I think that the Yi is pretty much identical with dream mind - your dreams present 'the way things are (and this is important)' that your conscious ego isn't seeing.)

But that thing you describe where the Yi comments/advises in the very asking of the question itself - I've only noticed that with Hex 4. I've been trying to think of other examples (not 4 or 33). Can you think of any?

Trojina · May 25, 2023

dobro p said:
Did you draw 33 in connection with answering Liselle's question? ;-)

This kind of thing has happened to me many times - I ask about A and the Yi directs my attention to B. (That's why I think that the Yi is pretty much identical with dream mind - your dreams present 'the way things are (and this is important)' that your conscious ego isn't seeing.)

But that thing you describe where the Yi comments/advises in the very asking of the question itself - I've only noticed that with Hex 4. I've been trying to think of other examples (not 4 or 33). Can you think of any?

That's a whole other topic for another thread I think as this one is specifically for people's experiences with 33uc.

dobro p · May 26, 2023

My point is that if this phenomenon happens only with 33 unchanging, that's important information.

Your Experiences with Unchanging Hexagrams - Hexagram 33

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