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	<title>Comments on: Talismanic qualities of hexagrams</title>
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	<link>http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2008/12/08/talismanic-qualities-of-hexagrams/</link>
	<description>Readings, insights and understanding from the I Ching, the oracle of Change.</description>
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		<title>By: Luis Andrade</title>
		<link>http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2008/12/08/talismanic-qualities-of-hexagrams/comment-page-1/#comment-76776</link>
		<dc:creator>Luis Andrade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 02:14:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/?p=720#comment-76776</guid>
		<description>Ha! Good thinking. 

I know (I think I know, anyway...) the &quot;Applegirl&quot; name comes from your affinity with Macs; for some reason though, I just thought that a literal translation of the moniker to Spanish is very nice and perhaps appropriate, given the challenging thoughts presented: &quot;La niña de la manzana,&quot; as in &quot;the girl with the apple.&quot; :D

&lt;blockquote&gt;Just because consciousness affects quantum processes doesn’t mean the big leap that so many people are looking for is actually real. I’m not sure external events can be changed all that easily because we all have free will.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m thinking that if I bite the apple of the &quot;nature of reality&quot; in a blog&#039;s comment section, the page will become an endless spaghetti of opinions that will go down Incoherency Road very fast. I certainly agree with the second sentence in the quote. Indeed, free will, as stated, is closely related to entropy for it to be effective beyond the individual. However, free will, as &quot;opposition or agreement in a potential stage,&quot; only comes into play as an aware reaction to overt external stimuli; with &quot;awareness&quot; being the operating word. For this I mean that we (our collective selves; whole sub-sets thereof; and even specially targeted individuals) are constantly affected and changed--in subtle and not so subtle ways--by covert external stimuli that runs outside of our awareness.

Coherency be damned, of course... :D

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Luis Andrade’s last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.yitoons.com/2008/11/481_5_a_matter_of_working_with.html&quot;&gt;48.1 &gt; 5, A matter of working with what&#039;s available...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha! Good thinking. </p>
<p>I know (I think I know, anyway&#8230;) the &#8220;Applegirl&#8221; name comes from your affinity with Macs; for some reason though, I just thought that a literal translation of the moniker to Spanish is very nice and perhaps appropriate, given the challenging thoughts presented: &#8220;La niña de la manzana,&#8221; as in &#8220;the girl with the apple.&#8221; <img src='http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<blockquote><p>Just because consciousness affects quantum processes doesn’t mean the big leap that so many people are looking for is actually real. I’m not sure external events can be changed all that easily because we all have free will.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m thinking that if I bite the apple of the &#8220;nature of reality&#8221; in a blog&#8217;s comment section, the page will become an endless spaghetti of opinions that will go down Incoherency Road very fast. I certainly agree with the second sentence in the quote. Indeed, free will, as stated, is closely related to entropy for it to be effective beyond the individual. However, free will, as &#8220;opposition or agreement in a potential stage,&#8221; only comes into play as an aware reaction to overt external stimuli; with &#8220;awareness&#8221; being the operating word. For this I mean that we (our collective selves; whole sub-sets thereof; and even specially targeted individuals) are constantly affected and changed&#8211;in subtle and not so subtle ways&#8211;by covert external stimuli that runs outside of our awareness.</p>
<p>Coherency be damned, of course&#8230; <img src='http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p><abbr><em>Luis Andrade’s last blog post..<a href="http://www.yitoons.com/2008/11/481_5_a_matter_of_working_with.html">48.1 &gt; 5, A matter of working with what&#8217;s available&#8230;</a></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Applegirl</title>
		<link>http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2008/12/08/talismanic-qualities-of-hexagrams/comment-page-1/#comment-76774</link>
		<dc:creator>Applegirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 21:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/?p=720#comment-76774</guid>
		<description>I think that&#039;s the crux of the issue Luis - the old issue of being able to affect events.  Just because consciousness affects quantum processes doesn&#039;t mean the big leap that so many people are looking for is actually real.  I&#039;m not sure external events can be changed all that easily because we all have free will.  I guess the idea of a talisman is for enlivening ones own relationship with the hexagrams, for example when there has been a particularly profound reading that needs to be sat with for a while.

However, Bradford&#039;s experiences with choosing hexagrams for situations is pretty amazing.  

Hilary - lovely reading for the year, hex 2 is a hexagram that gave me much insight this year.

Applegirl  ;)

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Applegirl’s last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://onloveandloss.wordpress.com/2008/08/17/can-you/&quot;&gt;Can You?&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that&#8217;s the crux of the issue Luis &#8211; the old issue of being able to affect events.  Just because consciousness affects quantum processes doesn&#8217;t mean the big leap that so many people are looking for is actually real.  I&#8217;m not sure external events can be changed all that easily because we all have free will.  I guess the idea of a talisman is for enlivening ones own relationship with the hexagrams, for example when there has been a particularly profound reading that needs to be sat with for a while.</p>
<p>However, Bradford&#8217;s experiences with choosing hexagrams for situations is pretty amazing.  </p>
<p>Hilary &#8211; lovely reading for the year, hex 2 is a hexagram that gave me much insight this year.</p>
<p>Applegirl  <img src='http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p><abbr><em>Applegirl’s last blog post..<a href="http://onloveandloss.wordpress.com/2008/08/17/can-you/">Can You?</a></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Luis Andrade</title>
		<link>http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2008/12/08/talismanic-qualities-of-hexagrams/comment-page-1/#comment-76773</link>
		<dc:creator>Luis Andrade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 20:25:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/?p=720#comment-76773</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;However, I share Hilary’s reticence about exploring such power. There seems to be a general principle that in any two-way relationship, responsibility exists in proportion to the power of the parties involved. When all the power lies with Yi, things are relatively straight-forward.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Perhaps I didn&#039;t express myself clearly enough or perhaps I sounded ambiguous. Not sure. What I&#039;m sure of is that I&#039;m not advocating any practices that go against anyone&#039;s beliefs, morals or preparedness. I was pointing that, if one observes things that are seemingly acausal and labels them &quot;talismanic&quot; (or &quot;magical,&quot; by any other name), then it may follow (at least in my mind) that acausality may not really exists and that those observations obey laws that are unknown to the observer. It further follows that if something obeys a given &quot;set of laws&quot; then, if said laws are learned, causality can be consciously effected.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Luis Andrade’s last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.yitoons.com/2008/11/481_5_a_matter_of_working_with.html&quot;&gt;48.1 &gt; 5, A matter of working with what&#039;s available...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>However, I share Hilary’s reticence about exploring such power. There seems to be a general principle that in any two-way relationship, responsibility exists in proportion to the power of the parties involved. When all the power lies with Yi, things are relatively straight-forward.</p></blockquote>
<p>Perhaps I didn&#8217;t express myself clearly enough or perhaps I sounded ambiguous. Not sure. What I&#8217;m sure of is that I&#8217;m not advocating any practices that go against anyone&#8217;s beliefs, morals or preparedness. I was pointing that, if one observes things that are seemingly acausal and labels them &#8220;talismanic&#8221; (or &#8220;magical,&#8221; by any other name), then it may follow (at least in my mind) that acausality may not really exists and that those observations obey laws that are unknown to the observer. It further follows that if something obeys a given &#8220;set of laws&#8221; then, if said laws are learned, causality can be consciously effected.</p>
<p><abbr><em>Luis Andrade’s last blog post..<a href="http://www.yitoons.com/2008/11/481_5_a_matter_of_working_with.html">48.1 &gt; 5, A matter of working with what&#8217;s available&#8230;</a></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Chris Willmot</title>
		<link>http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2008/12/08/talismanic-qualities-of-hexagrams/comment-page-1/#comment-76770</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Willmot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:23:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/?p=720#comment-76770</guid>
		<description>If the Yi oracle is more than &quot;what we see in it&quot; then it makes sense our part in that Tao &quot;stream&quot; will grow as we do -- it&#039;s a two way interaction.  Maybe wisdom (as in understanding) is not the only thing we learn as we allow Yi to teach us, and we yield aspects of our lives as &quot;living experiments&quot;.  It would not surprise me at all if the combination of Yi-plus-diviner were able to change the world as well as read the changes in it.  

However, I share Hilary&#039;s reticence about exploring such power.  There seems to be a general principle that in any two-way relationship, responsibility exists in proportion to the power of the parties involved.  When all the power lies with Yi, things are relatively straight-forward.  

Like Applegirl, I don&#039;t see anything intrinsically wrong with exploring whatever power the oracle grants us.  However, I don&#039;t have enough skill and wisdom for living an ordinary (non-magic) life.  (One reason for consulting Yi in the first place!)   I doubt I&#039;d be able to shoulder responsibility for the Karmic complications my &quot;magic&quot; interventions would bring, as well.  

But maybe, when the virtues of 13, 14, 15 and 16 are second nature... :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the Yi oracle is more than &#8220;what we see in it&#8221; then it makes sense our part in that Tao &#8220;stream&#8221; will grow as we do &#8212; it&#8217;s a two way interaction.  Maybe wisdom (as in understanding) is not the only thing we learn as we allow Yi to teach us, and we yield aspects of our lives as &#8220;living experiments&#8221;.  It would not surprise me at all if the combination of Yi-plus-diviner were able to change the world as well as read the changes in it.  </p>
<p>However, I share Hilary&#8217;s reticence about exploring such power.  There seems to be a general principle that in any two-way relationship, responsibility exists in proportion to the power of the parties involved.  When all the power lies with Yi, things are relatively straight-forward.  </p>
<p>Like Applegirl, I don&#8217;t see anything intrinsically wrong with exploring whatever power the oracle grants us.  However, I don&#8217;t have enough skill and wisdom for living an ordinary (non-magic) life.  (One reason for consulting Yi in the first place!)   I doubt I&#8217;d be able to shoulder responsibility for the Karmic complications my &#8220;magic&#8221; interventions would bring, as well.  </p>
<p>But maybe, when the virtues of 13, 14, 15 and 16 are second nature&#8230; <img src='http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Hilary</title>
		<link>http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2008/12/08/talismanic-qualities-of-hexagrams/comment-page-1/#comment-76748</link>
		<dc:creator>Hilary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 19:08:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/?p=720#comment-76748</guid>
		<description>No, not unamenable, just stretched and not at all clear what to do next. Also, I suppose I&#039;m leery of magic in general  - it so often seems to be regarded as a way to control other people. I won&#039;t throw out baby with bathwater, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, not unamenable, just stretched and not at all clear what to do next. Also, I suppose I&#8217;m leery of magic in general  &#8211; it so often seems to be regarded as a way to control other people. I won&#8217;t throw out baby with bathwater, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Luis Andrade</title>
		<link>http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2008/12/08/talismanic-qualities-of-hexagrams/comment-page-1/#comment-76747</link>
		<dc:creator>Luis Andrade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:03:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/?p=720#comment-76747</guid>
		<description>So, amenable to the idea that the hexagrams might &#039;do things by themselves&#039; but not that they can actually be purposely used? It isn&#039;t such a big stretch, IMO.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Luis Andrade’s last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.yitoons.com/2008/11/481_5_a_matter_of_working_with.html&quot;&gt;48.1 &gt; 5, A matter of working with what&#039;s available...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, amenable to the idea that the hexagrams might &#8216;do things by themselves&#8217; but not that they can actually be purposely used? It isn&#8217;t such a big stretch, IMO.</p>
<p><abbr><em>Luis Andrade’s last blog post..<a href="http://www.yitoons.com/2008/11/481_5_a_matter_of_working_with.html">48.1 &gt; 5, A matter of working with what&#8217;s available&#8230;</a></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Hilary</title>
		<link>http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2008/12/08/talismanic-qualities-of-hexagrams/comment-page-1/#comment-76743</link>
		<dc:creator>Hilary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 13:09:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/?p=720#comment-76743</guid>
		<description>Interesting you should mention hexagram 2... that&#039;s my reading for the year ahead.

You know, when I wrote the post I was thinking about how hexagrams seem to &#039;do things&#039; by themselves, without being asked. The idea of deliberately using them in some magical way is new to me, and a great big mental stretch.

Simply repeatedly writing down the hexagrams from a reading feels like a good place to start.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting you should mention hexagram 2&#8230; that&#8217;s my reading for the year ahead.</p>
<p>You know, when I wrote the post I was thinking about how hexagrams seem to &#8216;do things&#8217; by themselves, without being asked. The idea of deliberately using them in some magical way is new to me, and a great big mental stretch.</p>
<p>Simply repeatedly writing down the hexagrams from a reading feels like a good place to start.</p>
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		<title>By: Applegirl</title>
		<link>http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2008/12/08/talismanic-qualities-of-hexagrams/comment-page-1/#comment-76737</link>
		<dc:creator>Applegirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 11:07:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/?p=720#comment-76737</guid>
		<description>Very thought-provoking thread.  I had never thought of using the hexagrams as a talisman but it makes so much sense.  Hex 2 springs to mind, particularly when in need of some support with accepting difficult situations.  Imagine carrying the archetypal energy and wisdom of the iChing.   I think also, for serious diviners, the energy of your own relationship with the hexagrams, built up through meaningful engagement with the hexagram, could, in itself, &#039;charge&#039; a talisman.

So the iChing hexagram talismans are potentially very powerful because they&#039;re self-primed over a long period of meaning.  I think this is something to contemplate some more, but I could definitely see myself working with the iChing in this way.

Applegirl

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Applegirl’s last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://onloveandloss.wordpress.com/2008/08/17/can-you/&quot;&gt;Can You?&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very thought-provoking thread.  I had never thought of using the hexagrams as a talisman but it makes so much sense.  Hex 2 springs to mind, particularly when in need of some support with accepting difficult situations.  Imagine carrying the archetypal energy and wisdom of the iChing.   I think also, for serious diviners, the energy of your own relationship with the hexagrams, built up through meaningful engagement with the hexagram, could, in itself, &#8216;charge&#8217; a talisman.</p>
<p>So the iChing hexagram talismans are potentially very powerful because they&#8217;re self-primed over a long period of meaning.  I think this is something to contemplate some more, but I could definitely see myself working with the iChing in this way.</p>
<p>Applegirl</p>
<p><abbr><em>Applegirl’s last blog post..<a href="http://onloveandloss.wordpress.com/2008/08/17/can-you/">Can You?</a></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Luis Andrade</title>
		<link>http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2008/12/08/talismanic-qualities-of-hexagrams/comment-page-1/#comment-76626</link>
		<dc:creator>Luis Andrade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 02:18:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/?p=720#comment-76626</guid>
		<description>Well, I don&#039;t feel so silly anymore... :D

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Luis Andrade’s last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.yitoons.com/2008/11/481_5_a_matter_of_working_with.html&quot;&gt;48.1 &gt; 5, A matter of working with what&#039;s available...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I don&#8217;t feel so silly anymore&#8230; <img src='http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p><abbr><em>Luis Andrade’s last blog post..<a href="http://www.yitoons.com/2008/11/481_5_a_matter_of_working_with.html">48.1 &gt; 5, A matter of working with what&#8217;s available&#8230;</a></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Hilary</title>
		<link>http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2008/12/08/talismanic-qualities-of-hexagrams/comment-page-1/#comment-76624</link>
		<dc:creator>Hilary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:11:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/?p=720#comment-76624</guid>
		<description>...wow...

This is a pretty remarkable universe we find ourselves in, isn&#039;t it...?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;wow&#8230;</p>
<p>This is a pretty remarkable universe we find ourselves in, isn&#8217;t it&#8230;?</p>
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