A kind subscriber, David Rees, emailed me to ask about I Ching software:
“…Question : I have a shareware version of (presumably random-number generated) I Ching hexagram lines with naming, changing line(s)
(Update 26th Feb:
This post used to be a great deal longer. I don’t know where the end of it has gone; it seems the blog ate it. Sorry about this. The gist, as I recall, was that there are many appallingly bad ‘I Ching programs’ out there, but I can recommend two: San Shan Yijing and the Total Yijing program from GreatVessel.com . Both have the means of storing and sorting through your readings; both have free trials. San Shan has greater functionality, but Total Yijing is more user-friendly.
Whether or not you want to use a computer to cast your readings, I’d definitely recommend using one to record them. Then you have a complete, legible, searchable record of your readings, and if you want to find out when you last had this hexagram, or whether you really do keep on getting the fourth line changing whenever you ask about this, you can do so fairly easily.)
Devil’s advocate
Is the “random activity of the computer” really random?
BTW, in practical experience, I had found that Clarity’s flash is the most realiable software for computer-made-casting.
Best wishes
Do you mean – why describe it as ‘random’, since the answers aren’t? Or – it’s not easy to create a genuinely random event with a computerised ‘random’ number generator?
And thank you for your kind words about the local software!
Second one.
Long time ago, I wrote here about the 4 mayor forces: HEAVEN, EARTH, MAN and CHANCE (RANDOM)
At that light, it is esenssial to have real-random involved to join the 4 forces within a casting/answer. And, as you said, it is quite difficult to find real-random-generator.
That leads to another are of “modern speculation from a traditional point of view”: is it enough that the process is not entirely controled by the consultant? or it is needed real randomness? Frankly, i have no idea yet, but making empirical comprobations 🙂
Best wishes
I think the essential is that you don’t control it. Think of receiving signs from the flight of birds, for instance: beyond your control, certainly, but by no means random.
I have tried several computerised divination systems and found them accurate enough as long as you concentrate on what you want to know. Actually computerised readings are probably more reliable than hand-dealt cards or thrown coins because at least you are letting someone else do the work for you. I have calibrated programs against people whose fate I already know, before I get a reading for myself. It needs to be beyond your control for it to be truly proper and usually that means random when dealing with non-spiritualist means of divination.
Hi– I think that getting into the discussion of randomness is pointless. If you are curious about it, computer random number generators are criticized because in engineering, physics, astronomy and other exact sciences, an extremely large (emphasis on very very large) amount of random numbers may be required. In such cases, the basic generators tend to be cyclic and therefore are not considered truly random. People in need of such amount of random numbers use algorithms that are considered “perfect” by they creators: “a practical definition of ‘perfect’ is that we will pay $1000 to the first reader who convinces us otherwise (by finding a statistical test that [the algorithm] fails in a nontrivial way…)” I don’t know about you guys but I wouldn’t put my money on that bet… Besides, for the purposes of getting a hexagram… I’d say almost any number generator is good enough…
BUT, I think the question instead should be to what extent using a computer to consult the I Ching is useful to find advice or enlightenment… When I learned about the I Ching for the first time, I was taught that I should wash the coins and hold them for a while so that my energy and only mine will be held by the coins. Best thing to do was to put the coins inside the book and don’t let anyone else touch them… and each time I was consulting I should transfer the energy in me at that exact moment to get more out of the throw. Now, you can criticize computer randomness… but I doubt you can pass your energy in any way to the throw so that your reading is influenced by your own such energy… In other words, yeah, you shouldn’t control the throw but you should influence it… I guess the moral of the story is… DON’T USE THE COMPUTER TO CONSULT THE I CHING UNLESS YOU ARE JUST BROWSING (COOL TOO BUT NOT THE SAME AS THROWING COINS OR STICKS). Now, if you don’t believe in all that energy stuff… then you shouldn’t worry either about the randomness of the numbers your computer so kindly gives you! 🙂
Cheers!
Hi Louise, hi Carlos,
I’ve also seen powerful evidence that computerised readings work: for instance, having the same hexagrams come up when asking a sequence of related questions, first with the computer and then with beads. (As well as simply getting good answers.)
The question is, what’s the nature of the power that connects you to your reading? If it depends entirely on physical proximity, if it’s some kind of physical ‘stuff’ that actually needs to be transferred to the means of consulting, then consulting with a computer could be a problem. (Especially if the program is running on a remote server.) It would also be logically impossible for anyone to receive synchronistic messages from the radio, for instance, or the flight of birds.
…which makes me think that no doubt with the best intentions, Carlos’ first teacher led him up the garden path. It’s one thing to mark out the moment of divination as something different, to make a sacred space for it. It’s another thing to make it out to be a frail, immuno-suppressed patient, constantly in danger from cross-contamination and on the verge of collapse.
What is the nature of the power that connects us with the reading? I feel it’s something glorious, omnipresent, and irreducibly alive. I don’t believe we can define its limits.
mhh… good point… I feel it actually brings up a truly exciting paradox. Here’s a quotation from the I Ching presented by someone else that I think helps make the case:
“Innate knowledge and innate capacity are primordial, while
artificial knowledge and artificial capacity are conditioned.
When you recover the primordial reality, then you comprehend
nature and realize the meaning of life, and so enter the road of
life; this is the eternity of the path. If you follow conditioned arti-
ficialities, you obscure nature and damage life, and so enter the
road of death; this is the misery of the path.”
If the spirituality that moves us to consult the I Ching transcends the artificiality of the computer or any other component of the material world we’ve created, then why are we so attached to it that we can not sit facing north in a sacred space that is filled only by our own spirit and at the most someone else doing the reading and the interpretation? Don’t we loose a part of that primordial nature that defines our human spirit when we connect our bodies to a machine through a keyboard? or it truly doesn’t matter? I guess, it all comes down to what makes you feel good. I personally prefer to lit some candles, play some relaxation music and go to the good ole book…
Whoa! For your delight, I’m a scientist in the field of ecology who spends most of its time… in front of the computer!!! hahaha 🙂
cheers
Some people find the connection is strongest when they consult with a computer. Speaking for myself, I’m happiest with the set of beads given to me by a dear friend. 🙂
I’ve been writing I Ching computer programs or over twenty years and consulting the I Ching for almost thirty years and haven’t experienced any difference in the connection with the I Ching regardless of the method.
I have meditated, washed the coins, kept the book and the coins wrapped in cloth, used spagetti instead of yarrow stalks, random number generators, spent hours concentrating of the question and answer, asked quick joke questions and just looked at the resulting hexagram without reading anything.
For me there are two paths to the same connection, the first is an intellectual one where you consult because your interested in the answer, and the second is an emotional one where you consult because your “concerned” about the answer.
In general I don’t think descent, properly seeded random number generators (RNG) are a problem when used with the I Ching, but there are alot of dodgy RNGs, and unseeded RNGs which just return the same sequence of numbers each time they are run, and that’s a bit of a problem, not to mention the unknown way in which they are used.
I have used RNGs in past I Ching programs but Windows I Ching Explorer (WICE) doesn’t use one because I just feel that they introduce an extra level of “indirection”. You will notice that with nearly every other I Ching program the line generation is linked to one event, either the mouse button down, mouse button up, key down or key up event. This single event simply calls some algorithm associated with a RNG in some way.
WICE uses both the mouse button down and up event. On mouse button down, WICE starts to “move” the “value” of the entity, ie. the bit, line, trigram, or hexagram through it’s allowable values ie. 2^1, 2^2, 2^3 and 2^6 in a user configurable pre-defined sequence. The mouse button up event stops the “movement” at whatever “value” it is at that time. This is analogous to how long a coin spins, for bit entities. WICE also has a user configurable variable which determines how quickly the entity value is changed, this is analogous to how fast a coin spins.
Prior to v3.0.6, WICE simply moved the line value between 0, 1, 2 and 3 which didn’t replicate the young / old line three coin toss ratio, however if you used all eighteen bits in a consultation WICE did achieve the correct three coin toss ratio. In v3.0.6 I have added a delay which keeps the line value on 1 or 2, ie. three time longer than on values 0 & 3, which means that when lines are moved in fast mode they do replicate three coin toss odds.
In the next version of WICE I am implementing a persistent conversion tree or threaded journal, and a formal consultation mode which will hopefully make the program usable for consulations.
Regards
Steve
Whoops
In the next version of WICE I am implementing a persistent conversion tree
should say … a persistent conversation tree
hola , — Carlos is on the track to be sure , consulting an oracle for personal advice / aid / etc , one must introduce a “trace “of ones “self”, — again, “energy”, – but since all is spirit in the big picture , all these aspects , light , energy , vibrational frequency , et al , must be placed in context !and free of particular belief systems , whether , einsteinian, crawleyan , or
republican , ahem ,–my austrian friend Nick, swears by the sticks , I use the “hot” coins methode , both commune well with the ching , and the results can be astounding,—-by the way got here by signaling > synchronistic-
random generator!
I started with yarrow sticks and coins, but chose for the coins, because they yielded better answers. In the beginning I did not trust computer generated answers, but I had to change my opinion. Simply by doing it: the answers were extremely accurate. Much more so than with coins.
I ‘connect’ with my question most of all through the emotions, which make me ask. That works best when it is very direct. Asking without making a problem of the wording, no rituals, no time in between. Running to the book and throwing the coins (or hitting the keys), before anything else can calm me down.
I guess that is why the computer works best. Hit some keys and there it is. I have the San Shan software, which works great. Clarity’s does too. Not all do, so the way the answer is generated, is important too. What Steve made, sounds very good to me.
LiSe
I would agree with LiSe; i use coins on “special” issues, issues that are plagueing me; however, since last July i have been using an online free service. Better? Worse? Neither — just a different method.
I formulate my question or sets of questions in my head, sometimes in my online journal, then proceed with doing a throw. Everytime there is a pertinent answer. Sometimes, actual words mirror directly back. Accuracy though, means nothing to me. It’s what i call a non-issue. The iChing is not a forecasting tool. It allows insight as to how a person may approach given situations. It is always up to us to use our free will to act, or not act upon information given. And, as we all know, even non-action is a form of action…taken further, non-action is oftimes the path of least resistance, also called non-forcing. So, let’s be clear on what it does, how it does it and what we do with it. I find more often than not there is a great deal of humour in the Hexagrams. That keeps things in perspective for me.
One last thought: …we can enter the forest in a multitude of ways…by car, by foot, by bike…we can enter at different times of the day or night, and we can enter at varying points. Whichever “way” we choose, we all have access. The forest is the unknown…we want to know the unknown. That’s one of those connundrums of the Way. We can enter the unknown through the iChing. It says, if you enter this way…it gives you a conclusion. If you enter that way, another conclusion.
Once we get to the place or point of what Nigel Richmond called, a glimpse of the obvious, we can become less fascinated with its workings and more in tune with our dealings. Afterall, most of us are wanting to know how to deal with our lives. At some point, it all falls on us to exercise our will no matter what hexagrams appear before us.
You can also enter a desert, imagine a forest and conclude an ocean, that’s the real problem and it isn’t had to do.
If devotees of Krsna, turn ordinary food into prasadam, ‘His mercy’ and Christians can turn bread and wine into the flesh and blood of Christ for Holy Communion, then why not use any form of material method to consult the I Ching and find from that you’ve met your own spirit and sorted out any conflicts for it.
Coins, great for a hurry, yarrow, once a decade, too long and too hard to concentrate that long, the one in sixteen method, fantastic, the speed of a coin reading and even faster, with the same polarity of odds as explained by Wilhelm in the back of his I Ching translation. Or the computer, well, I’ve seen some shonky programs on the ‘net’ for the Ching. Some with no moving lines, so how do you know which one to read and how can they call it the book of change if they don’t even know the basic maths involved in most methods of consultation with the oracle.
I find the Javascript I Ching great. The next person might think it rubbish. My neighbours’ daughter had left her kids and gone to stay with some rough, druggie types on a sleezy side of town. The father came and visited me and wanted me to ask the I Ching for him what he must do to get his daughter back before the drugs totally mess her up, or she ends up in some serious criminal den with the associates she’d made. So I said, I’ll do it with the computer and using Javascript. Came out Lu 10 Stepping Carefully, changing into 42 I Increase. Quite obviously, the I was saying even with these rough crim types, nice manners and pleasantness will bring success and to eschew any form of violence or force. (Being an ex employee of the states prison system he would know people who as he said, would fix those guys right up) But the I Ching said not to do that and to concentrate on his higher self instead. Sure enough, three months before Christmas and with no questions asked, the daughter turns up with the kids to the delight of her father. And he’s a guy who says he doesn’t have any faith, beleif system and can’t see anything beyond, life is short and when you’re dead, you’re dead and buried.
So does it matter how the oracle was consulted if the answer recieved gave the right information and tactic to get his daughter back unscathed. And as it said virtually, she’s a big girl now, let her find her own way home.
Ironically he did say a few days later how convenient it is she arrives three months before Christmas when presents and feasting are prevalent.
I’m glad she’s back and he had the wisdom to let her go and find out for herself what a load of trash she was mixing in with and how now she is improving her social networks.
Nandalal
I am an astrologer and I Ching enthusiast who would like to weigh in here. In horary astrology, my very traditional instructor notes that there is indeed a ‘sacred moment / sacred space’ that must be accessed in order to be able to connect to the source for the answer to the question.
Accessing that space, in her view, is not to be taken lightly and actually involves a separate skill from interpreting the answer. She says she has known horary astrologers who can interpret the answer with a great deal of skill but who cannot effectively access the ‘sacred moment’ by asking the question in the right way or in the right time with the requisite attention.
I think attention has a lot to do with this successful access and depends a great deal on the skill of the questioner in contacting that knowing inner space. Ritualistic behaviors are known to potentiate and support the conversation between the conscious and subconscious mind…that is why ritual is so important. I think that the ‘space’ however, can be accessed without elaborate ritual but the attention that is paid to the query and the investment of meditative focus has much to do with the quality of the answer.
Chris, I couldn’t agree more. Periodically people ask me about ‘the right way’ to consult – they’ve heard that it can’t be done properly without passing the yarrow stalks through the incense smoke in a certain way, etc – and I generally suggest that the important thing is the quality of attention you give. Whatever ritual or lack of ritual reminds you of what you’re doing is good.