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	<title>Comments on: Thoughts on Wilhelm/Baynes</title>
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	<link>http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2006/06/25/thoughts-on-wilhelm/</link>
	<description>Readings, insights and understanding from the I Ching, the oracle of Change.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:03:56 +0000</pubDate>
	
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		<title>By: adlucem</title>
		<link>http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2006/06/25/thoughts-on-wilhelm/#comment-63817</link>
		<dc:creator>adlucem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Dec 2007 05:51:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/?p=292#comment-63817</guid>
		<description>I am very impressed with the advanced understanding that people here have of the IC... fascinating topic.

I have always approached the IC not as a literary work but as a true Oracle... a way in which to communicate with God. As a result, I see the IC as more of a navigator for my life rather than an interesting topic of study.

I guess i would come from a more emperical school of thought... less concerned with the mechanics and nuances of the subject and more focused on its heuristic value in getting me further along 'the way'. To some people the IC becomes and end in itself... rather than just a means to get to a further place. 

I will say one thing...the way...is one helluva ride.

adlucem</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am very impressed with the advanced understanding that people here have of the IC&#8230; fascinating topic.</p>
<p>I have always approached the IC not as a literary work but as a true Oracle&#8230; a way in which to communicate with God. As a result, I see the IC as more of a navigator for my life rather than an interesting topic of study.</p>
<p>I guess i would come from a more emperical school of thought&#8230; less concerned with the mechanics and nuances of the subject and more focused on its heuristic value in getting me further along &#8216;the way&#8217;. To some people the IC becomes and end in itself&#8230; rather than just a means to get to a further place. </p>
<p>I will say one thing&#8230;the way&#8230;is one helluva ride.</p>
<p>adlucem</p>
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		<title>By: simon abbott</title>
		<link>http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2006/06/25/thoughts-on-wilhelm/#comment-12465</link>
		<dc:creator>simon abbott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jul 2006 16:40:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/?p=292#comment-12465</guid>
		<description>Hilary, I too 'grew up' with Wilhelm/Baynes and only relatively recently came across firstly Huang, Carol Anthony, then Eranos and finally Karcher's Total I Ching (agree with you about the binding...was never going to survive constant use). Ritsema and Karcher's work was vital in allowing me to understand (and therefore strip out) the heavy moralistic overlay from the Confusian commentaries. This was pretty revelatory for me, as I had always felt deeply uncomfortable with a lot of the commentaries without quite being able to put my finger on why. So much of it seemed to fly in the face of the Dao de Jing. Now it's pretty obvious why.

Carol Anthony's work is dedicated and very  earnest and shows some deep understanding from an overtly Buddhist position, but is often strained, repetitive and by using W/B as its base text also takes what comes across to me at least as an overly moralistic tone. But her focus on relationships can be very illuminating. I would love to hear other people's take on her work.

But I must agree with you, that by seeking and discovering other translations and versions, one's return to Wilhelm often yields delightful surprises, for his language was (is) superb. Not surprising perhaps, since his version was CG Jung's  and Herman Hesse's constant companion. Though in their era they were not as spoilt for choice as we are.

But 'rolling the words on the tongue' and setting 'fish traps for the dao' appeals to me the most...for deep meaning and deeper insight seems to me to need time....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hilary, I too &#8216;grew up&#8217; with Wilhelm/Baynes and only relatively recently came across firstly Huang, Carol Anthony, then Eranos and finally Karcher&#8217;s Total I Ching (agree with you about the binding&#8230;was never going to survive constant use). Ritsema and Karcher&#8217;s work was vital in allowing me to understand (and therefore strip out) the heavy moralistic overlay from the Confusian commentaries. This was pretty revelatory for me, as I had always felt deeply uncomfortable with a lot of the commentaries without quite being able to put my finger on why. So much of it seemed to fly in the face of the Dao de Jing. Now it&#8217;s pretty obvious why.</p>
<p>Carol Anthony&#8217;s work is dedicated and very  earnest and shows some deep understanding from an overtly Buddhist position, but is often strained, repetitive and by using W/B as its base text also takes what comes across to me at least as an overly moralistic tone. But her focus on relationships can be very illuminating. I would love to hear other people&#8217;s take on her work.</p>
<p>But I must agree with you, that by seeking and discovering other translations and versions, one&#8217;s return to Wilhelm often yields delightful surprises, for his language was (is) superb. Not surprising perhaps, since his version was CG Jung&#8217;s  and Herman Hesse&#8217;s constant companion. Though in their era they were not as spoilt for choice as we are.</p>
<p>But &#8216;rolling the words on the tongue&#8217; and setting &#8216;fish traps for the dao&#8217; appeals to me the most&#8230;for deep meaning and deeper insight seems to me to need time&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Hilary</title>
		<link>http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2006/06/25/thoughts-on-wilhelm/#comment-12456</link>
		<dc:creator>Hilary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jul 2006 12:11:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/?p=292#comment-12456</guid>
		<description>Thanks Donato, hello Joe!

I think W/B puts down roots just because of the quality of the language. I don't know what that is, exactly - it's usually rhythmic qualities that make words stick with me. I think Wilhelm might be better at presenting the mind with answers, and Karcher better at presenting it with a mind-expanding enigma.

I agree with Donato, W/B and Huang are representatives of very much the same tradition, and Karcher is a different animal altogether. There are relatively few books outside that tradition - Wu Jing Nuan's &lt;i&gt;Yijing&lt;/i&gt; is another. I like bringing different versions together - the more different, the better - but I can also see the benefits of picking up different versions for different occasions. Personally, if I really want to be told unambiguously what to do, I'd reach for Jack Balkin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Donato, hello Joe!</p>
<p>I think W/B puts down roots just because of the quality of the language. I don&#8217;t know what that is, exactly - it&#8217;s usually rhythmic qualities that make words stick with me. I think Wilhelm might be better at presenting the mind with answers, and Karcher better at presenting it with a mind-expanding enigma.</p>
<p>I agree with Donato, W/B and Huang are representatives of very much the same tradition, and Karcher is a different animal altogether. There are relatively few books outside that tradition - Wu Jing Nuan&#8217;s <i>Yijing</i> is another. I like bringing different versions together - the more different, the better - but I can also see the benefits of picking up different versions for different occasions. Personally, if I really want to be told unambiguously what to do, I&#8217;d reach for Jack Balkin.</p>
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		<title>By: Donato</title>
		<link>http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2006/06/25/thoughts-on-wilhelm/#comment-12373</link>
		<dc:creator>Donato</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Jul 2006 17:35:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/?p=292#comment-12373</guid>
		<description>Dear Hilary,

I read your article with interest - I think there is a strong necessity about that issue - and at a first approximation I quite agree with what you say.
However I want to add my two pence to it.

Just at the opposite from you, I have been "grown up" with Wilhelm, so "that" was I Ching for me. I used to read first that tranlation and then several other ones (like Blofeld, Douglas, and T. Cleary, for instance) when I was not satisfied with W.
Then I attended to your course on line - fine - and discovered other "accredited" translations like A. Huang and Karcher, plus a comment, Sarah Dening's, that you raccomend. Trusting your judgement finally I bought a copy of each of them and started to consult them all in comparison to W.'s transaltion.
Needless to say I found them all illuminating and extremely useful, however...
I must say that W. still has an important place in my readings.
I found out that for general/filosophical/spiritual questions W. is invaluable, while for specific or practical questions (about relationships, for example) the other three ones are clearer and therefore more useful. So I think each of them has a certain area of application and can be regarded as complimentary. What do you think about that?

By the way, dispite of the apparent diversity W.'s and Huang's tranlations very often convey the same meaning, it seems what you may call a "classical tradition", while Karcher is quite another thing.
 
So to conclude, I'd like to remember the advice you give in your course, which sounds reasonable to me: to use the translation with which one feels more at "home" or at easy (and not forgetting the others).

Thank you,
Donato</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Hilary,</p>
<p>I read your article with interest - I think there is a strong necessity about that issue - and at a first approximation I quite agree with what you say.<br />
However I want to add my two pence to it.</p>
<p>Just at the opposite from you, I have been &#8220;grown up&#8221; with Wilhelm, so &#8220;that&#8221; was I Ching for me. I used to read first that tranlation and then several other ones (like Blofeld, Douglas, and T. Cleary, for instance) when I was not satisfied with W.<br />
Then I attended to your course on line - fine - and discovered other &#8220;accredited&#8221; translations like A. Huang and Karcher, plus a comment, Sarah Dening&#8217;s, that you raccomend. Trusting your judgement finally I bought a copy of each of them and started to consult them all in comparison to W.&#8217;s transaltion.<br />
Needless to say I found them all illuminating and extremely useful, however&#8230;<br />
I must say that W. still has an important place in my readings.<br />
I found out that for general/filosophical/spiritual questions W. is invaluable, while for specific or practical questions (about relationships, for example) the other three ones are clearer and therefore more useful. So I think each of them has a certain area of application and can be regarded as complimentary. What do you think about that?</p>
<p>By the way, dispite of the apparent diversity W.&#8217;s and Huang&#8217;s tranlations very often convey the same meaning, it seems what you may call a &#8220;classical tradition&#8221;, while Karcher is quite another thing.</p>
<p>So to conclude, I&#8217;d like to remember the advice you give in your course, which sounds reasonable to me: to use the translation with which one feels more at &#8220;home&#8221; or at easy (and not forgetting the others).</p>
<p>Thank you,<br />
Donato</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Juliet</title>
		<link>http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2006/06/25/thoughts-on-wilhelm/#comment-12003</link>
		<dc:creator>Juliet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Jul 2006 20:02:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/?p=292#comment-12003</guid>
		<description>Hello Hilary,

My brother has been casting the I Ching for 34 years and I am introducing him to your website.  He would like to reply to you:

My name is Joe Eastburn.  I'm going to subscribe to your newsletter.  My sister and I are here at her pad in Atlanta talking about all things spiritual, and started on the I Ching a minute ago and here I am communicating with you.  Such a miracle.  From just reading your thoughts on W/B, we both realized you're an I Ching scholar.  Are you saying W/B puts down more "roots" because it presents the mind with a riddle?  Anyway, I grew up using Blofeld, then W/B and now Huang.  Blessings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Hilary,</p>
<p>My brother has been casting the I Ching for 34 years and I am introducing him to your website.  He would like to reply to you:</p>
<p>My name is Joe Eastburn.  I&#8217;m going to subscribe to your newsletter.  My sister and I are here at her pad in Atlanta talking about all things spiritual, and started on the I Ching a minute ago and here I am communicating with you.  Such a miracle.  From just reading your thoughts on W/B, we both realized you&#8217;re an I Ching scholar.  Are you saying W/B puts down more &#8220;roots&#8221; because it presents the mind with a riddle?  Anyway, I grew up using Blofeld, then W/B and now Huang.  Blessings.</p>
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