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	<title>Comments on: Taking a woman?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2005/06/20/what-to-make-of-taking-a-woman/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2005/06/20/what-to-make-of-taking-a-woman/</link>
	<description>Readings, insights and understanding from the I Ching, the oracle of Change.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 01:30:51 +0000</pubDate>
	
		<item>
		<title>By: Hilary</title>
		<link>http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2005/06/20/what-to-make-of-taking-a-woman/#comment-945</link>
		<dc:creator>Hilary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jun 2005 22:40:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2005/06/20/what-to-make-of-taking-a-woman/#comment-945</guid>
		<description>That's a very interesting answer. It gives me the idea that gathering female cattle is auspicious because it opens up space for new possibilities. (The cows have 'inner space' to make baby cows :) ) I think that's also what is so alarming about the broken line entering in 44: an opening for something new, but something that could be anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a very interesting answer. It gives me the idea that gathering female cattle is auspicious because it opens up space for new possibilities. (The cows have &#8216;inner space&#8217; to make baby cows <img src='http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> ) I think that&#8217;s also what is so alarming about the broken line entering in 44: an opening for something new, but something that could be anything.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Nelson</title>
		<link>http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2005/06/20/what-to-make-of-taking-a-woman/#comment-943</link>
		<dc:creator>Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:07:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2005/06/20/what-to-make-of-taking-a-woman/#comment-943</guid>
		<description>I dreamed about #30 and then I asked
what does "auspicious to gather the female cattle" mean,
found in the discussion under #30 - 
and the answer is #23 - which to me means
that it is auspicious for the broken lines to
supplement the solid lines.  
To me that is what is happening with regard to
#44.  
 Positive change can be created. 
Nelson</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dreamed about #30 and then I asked<br />
what does &#8220;auspicious to gather the female cattle&#8221; mean,<br />
found in the discussion under #30 -<br />
and the answer is #23 - which to me means<br />
that it is auspicious for the broken lines to<br />
supplement the solid lines.<br />
To me that is what is happening with regard to<br />
#44.<br />
 Positive change can be created.<br />
Nelson</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Harmen Mesker</title>
		<link>http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2005/06/20/what-to-make-of-taking-a-woman/#comment-941</link>
		<dc:creator>Harmen Mesker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:36:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2005/06/20/what-to-make-of-taking-a-woman/#comment-941</guid>
		<description>It matters where the change from yang to yin takes place. In 44 the foundation is getting weak. That threatens the whole building. Ever played Jenga? (http://www.hasbro.com/jenga/). One tip: never mess with the foundation.....

Best,

Harmen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It matters where the change from yang to yin takes place. In 44 the foundation is getting weak. That threatens the whole building. Ever played Jenga? (http://www.hasbro.com/jenga/). One tip: never mess with the foundation&#8230;..</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>Harmen.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Hilary</title>
		<link>http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2005/06/20/what-to-make-of-taking-a-woman/#comment-940</link>
		<dc:creator>Hilary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:28:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2005/06/20/what-to-make-of-taking-a-woman/#comment-940</guid>
		<description>Staying within the tradition of line correspondences, yin=woman, for the moment... why is it such a disaster for yang to change to yin? Is the objective for everything to become yang and stick that way forever? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Staying within the tradition of line correspondences, yin=woman, for the moment&#8230; why is it such a disaster for yang to change to yin? Is the objective for everything to become yang and stick that way forever?</p>
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		<title>By: Allan Lian</title>
		<link>http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2005/06/20/what-to-make-of-taking-a-woman/#comment-939</link>
		<dc:creator>Allan Lian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:21:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2005/06/20/what-to-make-of-taking-a-woman/#comment-939</guid>
		<description>The rise of the inferior element; a bold girl who lightly surrenders herself; and the inferior man; all represent the yin line that replaces the first yang line of the Qian hexagram (which comprises of six yang lines).

If this yin line is not checked in time, then more yin lines could follow and eventually all the six yang lines will be replaced by yin lines consequently changing Qian into Kun. This would be in line with the Piqua (twelve monthly hexagrams) sequence. As the next hexagram after Gou will be 33 Tun / Retreat where the first two lines are yin lines and the remaining four yang lines are forced to beat a retreat.

In my earlier post, one has used the bold girl example to tie up the relationships between Hexagram 44 with line three (corrected) of Hexagram 4 which differs from the girl depicted in Hexagram 31. Under different circumstances, the image of the inferior element or an inferior man can be used too.

The hexagram also depicts the meeting between a strong and central assistant (second line) and a strong, central, and correct ruler (fifth line). A great flowering results, and the inferior element (first line) below can do no harm. Thus this is an important time, the time of the meeting of the light and the dark. (Book III [W/B]) 

The importance of the timing in the meeting between the light and the dark could allude to inner alchemy practice.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The rise of the inferior element; a bold girl who lightly surrenders herself; and the inferior man; all represent the yin line that replaces the first yang line of the Qian hexagram (which comprises of six yang lines).</p>
<p>If this yin line is not checked in time, then more yin lines could follow and eventually all the six yang lines will be replaced by yin lines consequently changing Qian into Kun. This would be in line with the Piqua (twelve monthly hexagrams) sequence. As the next hexagram after Gou will be 33 Tun / Retreat where the first two lines are yin lines and the remaining four yang lines are forced to beat a retreat.</p>
<p>In my earlier post, one has used the bold girl example to tie up the relationships between Hexagram 44 with line three (corrected) of Hexagram 4 which differs from the girl depicted in Hexagram 31. Under different circumstances, the image of the inferior element or an inferior man can be used too.</p>
<p>The hexagram also depicts the meeting between a strong and central assistant (second line) and a strong, central, and correct ruler (fifth line). A great flowering results, and the inferior element (first line) below can do no harm. Thus this is an important time, the time of the meeting of the light and the dark. (Book III [W/B]) </p>
<p>The importance of the timing in the meeting between the light and the dark could allude to inner alchemy practice.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Hilary</title>
		<link>http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2005/06/20/what-to-make-of-taking-a-woman/#comment-938</link>
		<dc:creator>Hilary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jun 2005 15:50:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2005/06/20/what-to-make-of-taking-a-woman/#comment-938</guid>
		<description>I don't think it's online anywhere, but she did send me a version - I'll email it to you.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s online anywhere, but she did send me a version - I&#8217;ll email it to you.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: lindsay</title>
		<link>http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2005/06/20/what-to-make-of-taking-a-woman/#comment-937</link>
		<dc:creator>lindsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jun 2005 15:31:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2005/06/20/what-to-make-of-taking-a-woman/#comment-937</guid>
		<description>Does anyone know if Margaret Pearson's "Oracle" article is available anywhere online?  I would love to read something she has written.  And this is a very interesting topic!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone know if Margaret Pearson&#8217;s &#8220;Oracle&#8221; article is available anywhere online?  I would love to read something she has written.  And this is a very interesting topic!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: chris lofting</title>
		<link>http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2005/06/20/what-to-make-of-taking-a-woman/#comment-936</link>
		<dc:creator>chris lofting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jun 2005 05:59:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2005/06/20/what-to-make-of-taking-a-woman/#comment-936</guid>
		<description>Allen picks up on the Bonding(Lake,Mountain)/Binding(Wind,Thunder) differences with the focus on a intercouse vs courtship. In 31 the bottom trigram is mountain, in the lower position this reflects self-restraint, blocking, stopping - the focus being on a bond (share space with another) that is repeated in the upper position with the other bond trigram - lake (here in the form of intensity in expression, top position). 

IOW 31 is a 'pure bonding' hexagram. expansive bonding in a contractive bonding context and as such more favouring of courtship (no consideration of time, all about sharing space) than intercourse (there IS a consideration about time).

31 thus reads 'with/from self-restraint comes intensity in expression'. The 31/33 PAIR reflect a focus on enticement - cooperative, unconditional (31) or competitive, conditional (33).

The sharing of time with another allows for the break-up to be 'clean' - no carrying-on after the event. OTOH the sharing of space with another is hard to break-up without leaving some residue of some form. In mountain there is an association to sadness, grief (lower position) but to discernment in upper, where we exploit the grief, the loss, to use it for quality control (a lost love can be used to filter future events)

Note that the binding trigrams - wind and thunder - have a general association to a lack of trust, wind in 'another', thunder in 'self' - just as, at the opposite ends of the yin-based and yang-based sequences we have absolute trust - 02 in another/others, 01 in self.

The two threads of yin and yang reflect issues of trust with 44 focusing on a lack of trust in another/others.

The categories from 02 to 44 show a path of increasing betrayal by others. the path from 01 to 24 is path of increasing betrayal by self.

For 31 the focus is on having experienced 'slight' betrayals in the past, so some 'wooing' is needed to get-back the trust. As we move into water so the barriers go up, rejection is the issue, 'us vs them'. Keep going into the realm of wind and cultivation is required to get trust (there is an initial anticipation of wrong doing that can be turned into anticipation of right doing - all reflected in the general qualities of wind-based trigrams).

SO we have:
Earth - total trust in another
Mountain - had some bad experiences so 'wooing' is needed.
Water - a 'cut' is made, the boundaries set - rejection is the issue.
Lake - no immediate trust at all. There is an anticipation of wrong-doing.

Thunder - no trust in self
Fire - a little trust develops (focus on acceptance)
Lake - confidence but a lot of 'showbiz' - still not totally trusting of self.
Heaven - absolute faith in self.

All of these qualities are hard-coded in all members of the species. LOCAL context will then add 'biases', genderise etc.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Allen picks up on the Bonding(Lake,Mountain)/Binding(Wind,Thunder) differences with the focus on a intercouse vs courtship. In 31 the bottom trigram is mountain, in the lower position this reflects self-restraint, blocking, stopping - the focus being on a bond (share space with another) that is repeated in the upper position with the other bond trigram - lake (here in the form of intensity in expression, top position). </p>
<p>IOW 31 is a &#8216;pure bonding&#8217; hexagram. expansive bonding in a contractive bonding context and as such more favouring of courtship (no consideration of time, all about sharing space) than intercourse (there IS a consideration about time).</p>
<p>31 thus reads &#8216;with/from self-restraint comes intensity in expression&#8217;. The 31/33 PAIR reflect a focus on enticement - cooperative, unconditional (31) or competitive, conditional (33).</p>
<p>The sharing of time with another allows for the break-up to be &#8216;clean&#8217; - no carrying-on after the event. OTOH the sharing of space with another is hard to break-up without leaving some residue of some form. In mountain there is an association to sadness, grief (lower position) but to discernment in upper, where we exploit the grief, the loss, to use it for quality control (a lost love can be used to filter future events)</p>
<p>Note that the binding trigrams - wind and thunder - have a general association to a lack of trust, wind in &#8216;another&#8217;, thunder in &#8217;self&#8217; - just as, at the opposite ends of the yin-based and yang-based sequences we have absolute trust - 02 in another/others, 01 in self.</p>
<p>The two threads of yin and yang reflect issues of trust with 44 focusing on a lack of trust in another/others.</p>
<p>The categories from 02 to 44 show a path of increasing betrayal by others. the path from 01 to 24 is path of increasing betrayal by self.</p>
<p>For 31 the focus is on having experienced &#8217;slight&#8217; betrayals in the past, so some &#8216;wooing&#8217; is needed to get-back the trust. As we move into water so the barriers go up, rejection is the issue, &#8216;us vs them&#8217;. Keep going into the realm of wind and cultivation is required to get trust (there is an initial anticipation of wrong doing that can be turned into anticipation of right doing - all reflected in the general qualities of wind-based trigrams).</p>
<p>SO we have:<br />
Earth - total trust in another<br />
Mountain - had some bad experiences so &#8216;wooing&#8217; is needed.<br />
Water - a &#8216;cut&#8217; is made, the boundaries set - rejection is the issue.<br />
Lake - no immediate trust at all. There is an anticipation of wrong-doing.</p>
<p>Thunder - no trust in self<br />
Fire - a little trust develops (focus on acceptance)<br />
Lake - confidence but a lot of &#8217;showbiz&#8217; - still not totally trusting of self.<br />
Heaven - absolute faith in self.</p>
<p>All of these qualities are hard-coded in all members of the species. LOCAL context will then add &#8216;biases&#8217;, genderise etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Nelson</title>
		<link>http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2005/06/20/what-to-make-of-taking-a-woman/#comment-935</link>
		<dc:creator>Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jun 2005 20:43:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2005/06/20/what-to-make-of-taking-a-woman/#comment-935</guid>
		<description> RE: 44, 
I think when the two people meet they
are chosen to make a change.  That is
why they meet, why they are not to unite yet or to try to
take possession of the person.  
After they both change then they are
ready for a marriage.    Both people are
required  to change.
The meeting of such energy charges the
person so each can  undertake the problems of
major change. 
Then the person begins with  #3 and 4.  
Then the  person will receive #10.

Nelson</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE: 44,<br />
I think when the two people meet they<br />
are chosen to make a change.  That is<br />
why they meet, why they are not to unite yet or to try to<br />
take possession of the person.<br />
After they both change then they are<br />
ready for a marriage.    Both people are<br />
required  to change.<br />
The meeting of such energy charges the<br />
person so each can  undertake the problems of<br />
major change.<br />
Then the person begins with  #3 and 4.<br />
Then the  person will receive #10.</p>
<p>Nelson</p>
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		<title>By: Allan Lian</title>
		<link>http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2005/06/20/what-to-make-of-taking-a-woman/#comment-934</link>
		<dc:creator>Allan Lian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:16:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2005/06/20/what-to-make-of-taking-a-woman/#comment-934</guid>
		<description>Yes, Ma Xia is right. Gou does mean sexual intercourse. 

For a refreshing Daoist point of view on Hexagram 44, â€œA highly sexed female is to be avoided at all cost since the maleâ€™s sexual energy will be exhausted quickly and can lead to an early death.â€ That is according to my â€˜coconutâ€™ Daoist friend.

Hexagram 44 Gou comes immediately after Hexagram 1 Qian in the Piqua (twelve monthly hexagrams) sequence and it depicts the entrance of a yin line replacing the first yang line of Qian; therefore a warning in the judgment relating to this line.

The image of a bold girl who lightly surrenders herself does not speak well of her (similar to the second line of Hexagram 4) as compared to the girl depicted in Hexagram 31 Hsien / Influence where through mutual attraction the strong man takes a position inferior to that of the weak girl and shows consideration for her. Remember Gou talks about sexual intercourse whereas Hsien talks about courtship (and restrain on seduction). Therefore the favorable judgment in 31, â€˜To take a maiden to wife brings good fortuneâ€™.

A further comment on Hexagram 4 line 2. The line also depicts the firm son taking over the household from the compliant master of the household (Book III). Therefore consideration has to be given to women in the household (Book I) just like his father did, as the Chinese like to have the whole family or extended family living under one roof then and now. 

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Ma Xia is right. Gou does mean sexual intercourse. </p>
<p>For a refreshing Daoist point of view on Hexagram 44, â€œA highly sexed female is to be avoided at all cost since the maleâ€™s sexual energy will be exhausted quickly and can lead to an early death.â€ That is according to my â€˜coconutâ€™ Daoist friend.</p>
<p>Hexagram 44 Gou comes immediately after Hexagram 1 Qian in the Piqua (twelve monthly hexagrams) sequence and it depicts the entrance of a yin line replacing the first yang line of Qian; therefore a warning in the judgment relating to this line.</p>
<p>The image of a bold girl who lightly surrenders herself does not speak well of her (similar to the second line of Hexagram 4) as compared to the girl depicted in Hexagram 31 Hsien / Influence where through mutual attraction the strong man takes a position inferior to that of the weak girl and shows consideration for her. Remember Gou talks about sexual intercourse whereas Hsien talks about courtship (and restrain on seduction). Therefore the favorable judgment in 31, â€˜To take a maiden to wife brings good fortuneâ€™.</p>
<p>A further comment on Hexagram 4 line 2. The line also depicts the firm son taking over the household from the compliant master of the household (Book III). Therefore consideration has to be given to women in the household (Book I) just like his father did, as the Chinese like to have the whole family or extended family living under one roof then and now.</p>
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